Statement from the Charismatic Episcopal Church’s Patriarch’s Council
For those following the recent events in the Charismatic Episcopal Church, the leaders of the CEC at the recent Patriarch’s Council meeting have issued a statement. Many faithful CEC laity and clergy have been asking for this statement for some time. Whether it says what many of these folks want to hear will remain to be seen.
Please check out the Patriarch’s Council Statement (this is a .pdf file that cannot be edited and copied)
To join in on the discussion on this subject, please check out the topic at our forum Patriarch’s Council Statement Discussion.
**Prayer Request Alert: David Z. was informed privately that Betty Adler, wife of CEC patriarch Randolph Adler, is in the hospital with only about 35% of her heart working. Please keep her and the Adler/Tanner family in your prayers. Prayer is urgently needed.**
David Bennett
Jennifer
asimplesinner
Fr. J.
Chad Toney
Jorge Flores
Jonathan B
carmelbennett
nicenehobbit
Jason S
jaybird68
papaz
September 25, 2006 at 4:19 pm
My comments will annoy some folks, I’m sure, but that has never stopped me speaking my mind before…
WHY does anyone CARE what the “patriarch” of the CEC has to say anyway? And why, I really finally have to ask, have we allowed these people so much blather room here?
Look, CEC isn’t a real church anyway. It’s a bunch of Protestant/Charismatic chancel-prancers who like holy drag. Instead of all the winching and whining of CEC “clergy” and laity, why don’t they get into a real Church and become RC or Orthodox?
September 26, 2006 at 4:31 pm
I’ll bite.
1. We apparently have a number of readers who are either current or former members of the CEC and thus interested in the goings on there.
By posting about the statement, I don’t think David is saying he agrees with it or that it’s coming down from the Mountain.
2. Why don’t CEC members get into a real Church? Because, from my POV, these things take time. God leads and guides according to his schedule and the wills of folks involved. I’m not privvy to either of those.
Perhaps many still have stumbling blocks and deep-seeded issues. Perhaps many are afraid, confused or unconvinced. I leave that between them and the Lord.
I hope that the CEC has been a gateway for many Evangelicals and Charismatics to be introduced to the anceint mainstream of the Christian faith. It seems that many have been led to do just what you suggest due to that introduction.
October 1, 2006 at 7:26 pm
I find the comment by “nicenehobbit” to be totally cruel and un-Christian and sometimes the typical RC answer … the people in the CEC are real people - with real hurts - and who genuinely love God and try their best to follow the Gospel. That does not necessarily mean being “Roman Catholic” … how rude of this person to speak the way they did … Jesus said … “You will know My disciples by their love one for another.” Perhaps the reason many former or present CEC members do not consider “going to Rome” is because this this very “holier than thou” attitude … shame on you … perhaps you need to examine yourself to see IF you are really a Christian or just a Catholic.
October 1, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Anonymous, I didn’t say the CEC folks were not nice and I didn’t say they weren’t believers, did I? So, learn how to read, dude. I did say that with historical Churches that come from Christ and the Apostles already existing (and thousands of proliferating sects) why add ANOTHER group into the pot?! The RC Church and the Orthodox are 1) Apostolic 2) have legitimate sacraments 3) are open to the Holy Spirit and His gifts…seems to me they have everything anyone could want.
And, by the way, I do not think RCs or Orhtodox are “holy” just by being in the Church…all holiness is Christ’s. If my bluntness bothers you, it’s your problem.
October 6, 2006 at 5:02 am
First off, I have to agree with nicenehobbit when he states “who cares what the patriarch of the cec has to say anyway”.
The CEC in the US, by the immoral actions of its patriarch, has been neutered in the eyes of the world. It no longer has any moral authority (if it ever had it to begin with.) As a former CEC deacon, I can attest to this.
Second, the issue of “getting into a real church” is indeed an affront to all Christians. Just because you believe that the “real” church can only be found in Rome or Constantinople (or wherever the Orhodox Metropolitan resides these days)does not negate the legitimacy of those seeking the fullness of the sacramental/charismatic/evangelicalin elsewhere than Rome.
I personally, take strong issue with Rome for its stance both on celibacy in the priesthood (it is not an apostolic requirement, but only one constructed by Roman councils much later to combat some hereditary problems with property, etc) along with other issues including the issue of perpetual virginity and sinlessness for the blesed mother of our Lord. Even the Orthodox have issues with this in that their bishops must be “celebate” or at least made so by putting their wives away in a convent. Even Rome at one time stated that clergy must divorce thier wives prior to orination to the priesthood. How is this Christian?
No Rome is not Home to many of us. You may be happy, but there are still many conciliar issues that prevent a lot of catholics from embracing Rome, and yet they are catholic nonetheless.
Only God knows the heart my friend. You cannot judge the CEC if you have never been in the CEC. You need to know the people. There was once an authentic catholic church within the CEC until it went way off into prophetic/charismatic, creating an unbalanced atmosphere. This followed by the patriarch’s immoral conduct toward the wife of one of his bishops - while drunk - created a crisis by which the CEC is now being splintered, perhaps destroyed (which probably needs to take place.)
As to your comment “And why, I really finally have to ask, have we allowed these people so much blather room here?”, this hardly seems charitable at all.
You really do need to check yourself and your spirit here. This spitting comment reeks more of rabidity than Christian concern or love for brothers and sisters in Christ who have been gravely wounded.
October 18, 2006 at 4:43 pm
Mr. Harmon, I’m pretty sure God said do not judge… period. Whether you where apart of the movement or not, you shouldnt judge. Rather you should pray that God fixes and rectifies the situation. If something immoral happened, pray that God reconciles the issue through His Mercy and Grace. To judge someone else and/or another Christian community is only asking God to judge you.
October 18, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Mr. Hobbit,
Some of us appreciate the “blather room” that you have given the people of the CEC. From what you have written here, however, I am sensing that you might be uncomfortable with the use of this space for this purpose.
As far the the CEC in your estimation not being a “real church” and just a bunch
of”Protestant/Charismatic chancel prancers” who, “like holy drag”, I can tell you that I am personally insulted by that comment. It is evident that you believe the “real”
church to be the RC or Orthodox and you are entitled to believe that.
If you wanted to attract people to the RCC or Orthodoxy though, name calling isn’t, in my opinion, the optimal way to accomplish that feat.
Just to let you know, I grew up in both the Roman Catholic church and the Episcopal church. I was confirmed in the Episcopal church.
The Episcopal parish that I have belonged to for over 20 years has an 80 year history, and left ECUSA over 10 years ago and became CEC. I have always loved the smells and bells!
Blessings on your journey.