Comments on: US Bishops to Obstinate Dissenters: Refrain from Communion http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/ The Ancient and Future Catholic Blog Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:50:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Mike Baldwin http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-584 Mike Baldwin Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:38:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-584 nicene hobbit, my point was exactly as you stated. Politicizing done by our bishop in the name of the church using sacraments to keep us hostage. I did not say for whom I voted. I am not bashing Bush. His own aide said they regularly ridiculed the Christian Right after securing their pledges of support for agenda items they never planned to deliver.<br/><br/>A bishop or group of bishops deciding unilaterally what the preeminant pro-life topics are, is exceeding his/their authority, IMO. How could he/they state that an unjust war (as declared by the Pope) killing thousands, causing great destruction, be less offensive than, for instance, what two same sex individuals decide to do in the privacy of their own home? How is/was it determined by them, after the visit by JP2 to Missouri and his plea to commute a death sentence, determined that stem cell research is worse than the death penalty? nicene hobbit, my point was exactly as you stated. Politicizing done by our bishop in the name of the church using sacraments to keep us hostage. I did not say for whom I voted. I am not bashing Bush. His own aide said they regularly ridiculed the Christian Right after securing their pledges of support for agenda items they never planned to deliver.

A bishop or group of bishops deciding unilaterally what the preeminant pro-life topics are, is exceeding his/their authority, IMO. How could he/they state that an unjust war (as declared by the Pope) killing thousands, causing great destruction, be less offensive than, for instance, what two same sex individuals decide to do in the privacy of their own home? How is/was it determined by them, after the visit by JP2 to Missouri and his plea to commute a death sentence, determined that stem cell research is worse than the death penalty?

]]> By: NiceneHobbit http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-583 NiceneHobbit Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:29:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-583 mike,<br/> Maybe you should leave off YOUR politicizing (Bush bashing)...I am a conservative and no one has "duped" me. I voted (and will continue to vote) Republican because the alternative is too frightening to me. Honestly, if we ever have a Kerry like President, I will seriously consider leaving the country. mike,
Maybe you should leave off YOUR politicizing (Bush bashing)…I am a conservative and no one has “duped” me. I voted (and will continue to vote) Republican because the alternative is too frightening to me. Honestly, if we ever have a Kerry like President, I will seriously consider leaving the country.

]]> By: Mike Baldwin http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-582 Mike Baldwin Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:56:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-582 In our diocese, the last general election, was determined by Catholics who were told that to vote for Kerry was potentially going to leave them "ex-communion-ated". This goes far beyond the bishop's authority, IMO. This is using the sacraments for a political agenda. Our bishop labeled certain pro-life issues preeminant, and thus to vote for another candidate who held other pro-life views was to jeopardize your catholic status. Let me ask regarding those preemeinant issues: Has abortion been banned?, has gay marriage been banned? has stem cell research been banned? has euthanasia been banned? by this supposed pro-life president? No, he routinely sought (and got) the support of "conservatives" and then dismissed them with ridicule once they left the White House. How sad the "conservatives" continue to be duped. In our diocese, the last general election, was determined by Catholics who were told that to vote for Kerry was potentially going to leave them “ex-communion-ated”. This goes far beyond the bishop’s authority, IMO. This is using the sacraments for a political agenda. Our bishop labeled certain pro-life issues preeminant, and thus to vote for another candidate who held other pro-life views was to jeopardize your catholic status. Let me ask regarding those preemeinant issues: Has abortion been banned?, has gay marriage been banned? has stem cell research been banned? has euthanasia been banned? by this supposed pro-life president? No, he routinely sought (and got) the support of “conservatives” and then dismissed them with ridicule once they left the White House. How sad the “conservatives” continue to be duped.

]]> By: Mike Baldwin http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-579 Mike Baldwin Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:11:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-579 You are right, this is not new. Denial of communion and other sacraments has been a constant threat through all of church history. The pendulum swings back and forth as to how it has been used/applied. Sometimes abusively and coercively, with the hope of publicity for a position (teaching)the local ordinary considers "preeminent" and at other times with prudence.<br/><br/>We shall see. I may need to abstain based on the final document. I have thus far only seen a leaked "rough draft". You are right, this is not new. Denial of communion and other sacraments has been a constant threat through all of church history. The pendulum swings back and forth as to how it has been used/applied. Sometimes abusively and coercively, with the hope of publicity for a position (teaching)the local ordinary considers “preeminent” and at other times with prudence.

We shall see. I may need to abstain based on the final document. I have thus far only seen a leaked “rough draft”.

]]> By: LutherPunk http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-577 LutherPunk Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-577 I used to go to a church that had those cards. It had Article X from the Augsburg Confession printed on it. <br/><br/><i> Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise. </i><br/><br/>If you were not a member, you had to sign it and turn it in to an usher prior to communion. <br/><br/>It should be interesting to see how this document is lived, since the biggest divide I (as an outsider) see is between the official teaching of the church and the way that is implemented within the parishes. I used to go to a church that had those cards. It had Article X from the Augsburg Confession printed on it.

Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.

If you were not a member, you had to sign it and turn it in to an usher prior to communion.

It should be interesting to see how this document is lived, since the biggest divide I (as an outsider) see is between the official teaching of the church and the way that is implemented within the parishes.

]]> By: NiceneHobbit http://blog.ancient-future.net/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-576 NiceneHobbit Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:36:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/25/us-bishops-to-obstinate-dissenters-refrain-from-communion/#comment-576 The Catholic bishops' pronouncement is absolutely correct. People DO take Holy Communion too lightly. As for the Orthodox...you bet the rules are generally stricter than in the West. In many Slavic churches a person MUST confess before each Communion. Also, an Orthodox priest might very well give someone an epitimia ("penance") that forbids them Communion for a certain period of time. Kudos to the Bishops on this one! The Catholic bishops’ pronouncement is absolutely correct. People DO take Holy Communion too lightly. As for the Orthodox…you bet the rules are generally stricter than in the West. In many Slavic churches a person MUST confess before each Communion. Also, an Orthodox priest might very well give someone an epitimia (”penance”) that forbids them Communion for a certain period of time. Kudos to the Bishops on this one!

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