What does veneration mean, in a religious context? It means to give someone honor, to pay someone respect, etc. As human beings, we can’t do this gnostically, just unthinkingly sending invisible respect beams to one another.
At little Johnny’s birthday, we don’t just stand around meditating about his positive attributes. No, we sing to him while he merely listens. We give gifts to him while he simply receives, opens, and responds. We prepare specials foods and decor. We designate an entire day to what is, in material terms, nothing more than a common obstetric procedure.
Catholics can catch a lot of flack for venerating Saints. It is Obviously Idolatry to many unfamiliar with it.
Except for Anglicans, most protestants don’t have “Saints” in the Catholic sense. But they do have what are sometimes called “heroes of the faith” or “great figures of the gospel”. There are sermons preached on them, books written about them, etc.
[ snark ] Now, I looked on some websites and tried to find out how these super-spiritual protestants are elevated to such a position. Who decides who gets to be Always-Quotable Heroes of the Gospel? There are two main ways:
1. The Magisteria of book publishers decide which biographies will sell.
2. Individual pastors decide which men agree with them and quote them in their sermons. Why do they quote Jonathan Edwards, puritan and not Ralph Toney, Baptist preacher and auto-mechanic? Because they’ve created an unbiblical adoration of fallible men! [ / snark ]
That totally tongue-in-cheek comparison probably doesn’t work on every count, but it can be easily done if I assume that protestants are being disingenuous or un-biblical.
(cross-posted at CINE)
David Bennett
Jennifer
asimplesinner
Fr. J.
Chad Toney
Jorge Flores
Jonathan B
carmelbennett
nicenehobbit
Jason S
jaybird68
papaz
November 12, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Many of my relatives are Methodists (and, for a while when I was a boy, because of options we attended a German Methodist Church). One of their favorite hymns was “Ye Watchers And Ye Holy Ones” which calls upon all of Heaven to praise God. The second verse (taken right from the Orthodox prayer to Mary) says:
“O higher than the cherubim!
More glorious than the seraphim!
Lead their praises! Alleluia!
Thou Bearer of the Eternal Word;
Most Gracious, magnify the Lord!
Alleluia!”
Most knew this verse was about Mary and the congregations always sang it with gusto.
November 12, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Icons are very in vogue at the moment at even non-denominational Bible churches. They place them in smaller rooms as either religious art or a semi-religious object. Not sure how that jives with the rest of their beliefs, but I assume the word saint is either permitted or not noticed if in Greek.
November 12, 2007 at 4:44 pm
I’ve attended at least three funerals of family members since entering the Catholic Church. They were all low church evangelicals (Baptist, Nazarene, etc.)
The funeral, along with the wedding, is one of the last bastions of liturgy in those traditions. I have been struck by how the honor shown to the deceased at these funerals often meets and exceeds the honor that Catholics pay to the Saints.
There is a religious service where the deceased is the center of attention. People extol their virtues. They kiss and touch the body (which has been well dressed and surrounded with things the person loved in life) their loved one has left behind. People talk to them as if they can hear them. The minister discusses the larger issues of life, death and the gospel in relation to this person’s life. There are flowers offered to their memory. There are images of them around the chapel and funeral parlor.
I don’t chide my relatives for doing this, because I do these things along with them…I just don’t stop at my recently deceased loved ones.
It’s not idolatry when they do it. I wish more of them could understand it’s not idolatry when us Catholics do it, either.
November 12, 2007 at 6:58 pm
When my non-Catholic friends ask about “worshipping” statues, I explain it to them this way. We all have photos of our spouses, children, parents (living and/or deceased) on the walls of our homes, in our wallets, or desks in the workplace. We know that these photos aren’t the people themselves, but they are reminders of those we know and love, which we keep close to us because we want to remember them, and pray for them. So it is with statues of Our Lord, Our Lady, and the saints. We respect them because of Whom they represent. The statues themselves are just made of wood, marble, or plaster, and have no power. The power belongs to God alone. So statues, etc. are souvenirs or reminders of the Lord, and those who have gone before us, all members of the Church Triumphant. This explanation seems to be OK wih them.
November 13, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Lutherans actually have a fairly well developed theology of Saints even if it is generally unknown among modern American Lutherans. The Lutheran Confessions teach that the angels and Saints even intercede for humans, but discourages people from asking for these prayers.
Luther is also well known to have said that people with strong faith should say the Hail Mary, but those with weak faith who may misunderstand the devotion should avoid it.
November 16, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Great post, Chad! I live in DC, and there’s all sorts of statues every time you turn a corner. No outrage about that, though.
November 18, 2007 at 4:29 am
Great comment, Jason. And, thanks for the post, Chad.
I grew up in a very liberal parish in the 70’s in Virginia. I remember telling Protestant friends who would say that Catholics were idolaters, “Oh maybe we used to be, but not since Vatican II.” Can you imagine? Praise God the Church is well on the way to recovery!!
God Bless all,
Fr. J.
November 26, 2007 at 5:44 pm
For some reason, I didn’t get email notifications for comments on my own post, so I’m just seeing these now!
Jason, I think your funeral examples are much better than my birthday ones.
Lutherpunk, thanks for bringing that perspective and sorry for not acknowledging that more sophisticated view. Who resembles closely the Catholic take, Lutherans or Anglicans?