Cutting edge 1970s theologian Father Richard McBrien has recently been talking about the Traditional Latin Mass. More specifically he has been quoted as saying “But if such Catholics are under the ages of 45 or 50, they have little or no hands-on experience of the pre-Vatican II Mass. It is a mystery how one can be nostalgic for something one had never experienced.”
If this is a true quote, Father McB is a remarkably disingenuous on this matter.
The FSSP has been around for 19 years since the promulgation of Ecclesia Dei.
Notre Dame freshman are 18. Do the math.
Some kids in fact DID grow up with the TLM as it has been offered in some places without stop for the past 40 years. Others have converted or reverted to the Catholic faith into communities that offer it. Some just need no better reason than plain good taste. More than a few grew up with the wildest liturgical aberrations as standard fair, and simply wish to leave it in their childhood.
If Fr. McB is so utterly confounded by why youth have an affinity for this liturgy, he can quite easily do a little due dilligence. He can stop by the chapel at NDU where the 8am TLM brings out 200+ students and ask them “Hey you kids, why are you doing this? Don’t you know you are too young to want this or know what this is?”
The funny/sad thing is the lipservice liberals and dissidents give to multi-culturalism is just so much hot air. All things being equal, why not let these folks “do their thing”? Why be bothered by their affinity for traditions? What are these folks hurting? Only a small (although growing) percentage of Masses in the world will take this form. The ordinary form is not going anywhere.
No one can take the man seriously anymore. (Its not that you don’t understand why they like it, Father Richard!) He understands all too well and is annoyed! At the tender age of 71, he is entering (to be generous) his twilight years, and his revolution has failed. Miserably.
Don’t worry about the youngsters, Fr. McB! I am sure when you are called home, they will be generous and have requiem Masses offered for the repose of your soul. (I sure hope the same is done for mine!) You will just have to accept that they may just as easily be Masses of the Extraordinary Form.
David Bennett
Jennifer
asimplesinner
Fr. J.
Chad Toney
Jorge Flores
Jonathan B
carmelbennett
nicenehobbit
Jason S
jaybird68
papaz
December 10, 2007 at 8:45 am
Interesting that you bring Fr. McB up. We here in LA have a column weekly by him, and that quote is directly from the article that I read. (As one of the under 45 that are attracted to the Extrordinary Form, I had this to say in an article I wrote back to the Tidings (too bad it never got Published)
It is often said that the youth are looking for things that are relavent to them. It is often said that the youth are looking for something “hip” or “cool.” I am 22 years old, and have previously only been exposed to the Novus Ordo Mass of Paul VI. Fr. McBrien says in hsi column “
But if such Catholics are under the ages of 45 or 50, they have little or no hands-on experience of the pre-Vatican II Mass. It is a mystery how one can be nostalgic for something one had never experienced.” It should not be a mystery to why the youth are more and more being attracted to this Mass. The reverence, the mystery, the sacrifice of the Mass, the recognition that we are one with the Saints who prayed this Mass long before us. I have been to many “youth Masses” during my lifetime and I can say that this approach has not worked for many of us. The watering down of the Gospel Message is NOT what the youth are looiking for. They are tired of hearing the lies of society and the gospel according to the media or MTV, and want to hear the TRUTH that exists within the Catholic Faith as handed down to us by the Apostles’. I went to St. Thérèse Catholic Church in Alhambra a couple of weeks ago to attend the Tridentine Mass that has been freed by Pope Benedict XVI. I was absolutely amazed by the reverence that was shown by the priest who was saying Mass. Fr. Bishop. I truly felt present at Calvary when I went to Mass. The Chants were amazing and I was really drawn by the internal participation. On my mind was the fact that this is the Mass of the Saints before us, including my patron St. Thérèse. This mass meant much more to me than people trying to bring the Gospel down to our level. We want to be challenged to live the Gospel, not making everything okay for us. If I was looking to hear “hip” or “cool” music, I’d listen to the CD player or the radio. In Mass, I (nor do many of the youth as they are starting to see) don’t need to hear the guitar or drumsets playing during Mass. If anything this has the oppisite effect than what it’s trying to do. It’s making something that’s sacred into a rock concert, which is not what any of us want Mass to be. I send this reply in response to Fr. McBride’s Collumn saying that none of us would be attracted to this Mass. I am quite young, and am very attractive to this Mass, as it’s also serving as the springboard for my vocation into the priesthood. The priest’s back is not to us, likewise the person who sits in front of us does not have their backs to us, but rather is facing the same direction to the east or in the latin Ad Orientum, which is showing us the way to Christ who will come again by the East. Fr. McBrien also says ” There were no sermons at daily Masses, no congregational responses, and few Communions.” This may be true. However, the point of the Mass is not for us, but rather for the worship of God. The reason why Communions were less was because people had the recognition of what sin is. Not what has been taught at many catechesis classes that mortal sin basically doesn’t exist. (I remember hearing that during my Catechesis). It is my belief that the youth are looking for TRUTH, REVERENCE and DEVOTION, all of which exist in the Tridentine Mass, the Mass of the Saints that came before us. All for the Glory of God. Amen!
December 10, 2007 at 11:57 am
McBrien should cross the Tiber in the opposite direction and join the American Espiscopal Church where his views would be lauded.
December 10, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Whenever Dick McBrien comes up I feel it is my duty to let people know that he is NOT a member of the Congregation of Holy Cross, the community of which I am a member and which founded Notre Dame. And, as a tenured faculty member, his position on the faculty is guaranteed. McBrien is a priest of the diocese of Bridgeport, Connecticut. To my knowledge he has never been disciplined by any bishop of that diocese.
As for the quote. I can only verify second hand that he has been making this comment over and over in his classroom for years.
Disclaimers out of the way, I would just like to add to Joe of St. Therese’s comment that the liberation of the Extraordinary Form (EF) is not a going back. It is impossible to go back and live in the 1950’s or the 1650’s. The EF today will be celebrated with today’s sensibilities with brief homilies and a greater number of communicants than before the council.
Even Pope Benedict has not considered the EF a going back to a former time. He has approved the 1962 version only–a missal in use for only about 5 years. And, reportedly, this form will not be immune to revision as it calendar will be updated with contemporary saints and feasts. The EF is not a museum piece but is a living rite which will continue to reflect the ongoing life of the Church.
What McBrien misses in his own argument is that young people do not want to return to a Church they never knew. They are thoroughly modern people and cannot help but be so. The Church of former times was impersonal and rigid in its style. I don’t see young people clamoring for that.
What we all have to understand and live with is that the EF is now a living dimension of the Church’s liturgy. It is not a theoretical possibility, but a fact. And that some people of all ages are attracted to the EF means it is not going away.
The sooner we stop penalizing each other in the Church for our legitimate liturgical preferences, the sooner we can get on with the evangelical mission of the Church.
December 11, 2007 at 7:35 am
Thanks for adding to my point Fr. J.
December 11, 2007 at 8:22 am
Joe & Father J, good points all.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight per se - I am a Greek Catholic. But I get understandably nervous or annoyed when the media darlings of the American Catholic church start to lambaste or disparrage liturgical traditions in thier own house.
If they get their joints out of whack over the liturgical proclivities and sensiblities of Catholics who likely constitute >1% of Catholics (certainly less than 1% of sunday Masses!)… What are we who aren’t Roman at all to think? Fortunately we are useful ethnics to most of these folks - they like our vernacular liturgy & married priests… the rest of the “old timey stuff” can be chocked up as ethnic. “Good for them there people.”
I would postulate that Fr. McB needs to come out and be more plain - it isn’t the liturgy all. Given all the aberrations that have been tolerated, if it were just a matter of “the priest facing the wrong way and mumbling Latin” it would seem fair game.
No, it is the sensibilities of the folks that like it. They tend to aspire to loyalty to Rome, adherence to Catholic teaching, treat their marriages as sacraments - with lots of babies(Humanae Vitae! huh?) & less divorce - and have not been docile lambs lead to the slaughter by some of the kooks that have hijacked whole diocese.
I have no special personal affinity for the TLM. I’d just as soon attend my own Divine Liturgy of St. John, and have been pleased with Dominicans who offer solemn NO vernacular liturgy for morning Mass.
I do have special attachment to some of the voices in that movement. Unabashed Catholic counter-cultralism where the Faith of Our Fathers is sought first and without comprimise.
THAT is what Father McB seems to dislike most of all.