I put forward the same position for the death penalty debate. We have to attempt justice. It is not society’s job to forgive sins, it’s mine.

Excellent points, Rob.

I would suggest, though, that imprisonment is precisely like a penance. And historically this is so, giving us the word “penitentiary.” According to JPII’s reasoning, the death penalty deprives the convict of his due and just penance. The sentence in Christian thought is actually a remedy for the soul. So, by this line of reasoning, the death penalty deprives the individual of a spiritual good.

I used to agree, until I learned how many criminal acts on the “outside” are orchestrated from the “inside”. Many gang-leaders wield a great deal of power from prison and threaten judges, corrupt police, etc.

Correction taken. Thank you.

But I stil do not see how taking a man’s life in an execution is not Christian, but taking the last fifty years of his life and freedom and is a perfectly Christ-like response. Again, if we are to forgive, why not free them?

When a priest absolves someone of sin, he also gives them penance. Isn’t this unChristian? Shouldn’t he just forgive them outright? Or do we need to attempt atonement, even if we can never adequately atone for our sins?

I put forward the same position for the death penalty debate. We have to attempt justice. It is not society’s job to forgive sins, it’s mine.

I liken the Death penalty to playing God. Do we have a right to play God? Do we have the right to take someone’s life?

I’m of the opinion that we don’t have the right to play God in any situation.

The only difference between the death penalty and abortion, is that in one situation, a person has a right to defend themselves, and the other doesn’t.

If the death penalty can be avoided, it should be avoided.

I just think that in the modern world that the faculties to have the death penalty do not exist.

Please, let us remember that both sides in this debate can argue from Scripture and Tradition and both sides are able to make convincing arguments. So, let’s please keep it civil and remember that we’re all faithful Catholics loyal to the Church, trying to make sense of an issue of prudential judgment (in other words, no heretics or dissenters here).

Please let’s keep the conversation on an academic level, and not get personal, since everyone here is committed to following Catholic Teaching.

If you favor capital punishment, that is fine. It is your prerogative as an American and as a Catholic. No problem. But we don’t have to resort to name calling, do we?

But that’s what happens when you identify with the Catholic Church, JPII and Jesus Christ. Sometimes you are called a reactionary ultra-arch-conservative and sometimes you are called a mushy, liberal, sentimentalized Christian.

From the point of view of JPII, it is called the consistent life ethic or the Gospel of Life.

In the end the Gospel is neither conservative nor liberal. It is holy.

Christ’s relationship to the law is not so simple as that. Even in Matthew, the most Jewish and law centered gospel you have in Chapter 5 the famous series of “You have heard it said…but I tell you” passages. In that series which follows the Beatitudes which themselves subvert the law, Jesus condemns divorce, taking oaths, eye for an eye retribution, and hatred of enemies. While none of these pertains directly to capital punishment, they all point to a reordering of the law. So, to say that Jesus simply does not change the law is inadequate. Rather, Christ fulfills the law and the prophets regarding the messiah and salvation, but his teachings repeatedly transcend the law with regard to ethics, calling for a higher standard.

But this has nothing to do with punishment. When my son breaks something, hits his sister, lies, etc, I always forgive him. But he still gets punished. It would be silly to go around “forgiving” everything in the sense that you speak about. Forgiveness is “in the heart” (a vile term, but , there, I used it). Society still has to function, and it can’t go around forgiving murderers.

If we are going to forgive them, why not let them out of jail? Why do some draw the line at withholding only one kind of punishment?

Father,

With much respect.

-I believe that Christ would not choose state execution-

Wouldn’t this mean that Christ rejected the Law, which he says that he would not change?