Commentüs on: Season’s Greetings! http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/ The Ancient and Future Catholic Blog Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:37:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: A Simple Sinner http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1474 A Simple Sinner Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:45:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1474 After dragging my feet for a few days I finally got around to posting my response on this. I did so on a new entry: <a HREF="http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/light-on-christmas.html" REL="nofollow">Light on Christmas </a> After dragging my feet for a few days I finally got around to posting my response on this. I did so on a new entry: Light on Christmas

]]> By: Email Address In Profile http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1442 Email Address In Profile Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:47:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1442 All we non-Epicopalian Anglicans winch a bit every time Kate gets featured. <br/><br/>Heavy sigh<br/><br/><br/>+Frederick Fick All we non-Epicopalian Anglicans winch a bit every time Kate gets featured.

Heavy sigh

+Frederick Fick

]]> By: Email Address In Profile http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1441 Email Address In Profile Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:44:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1441 I usually evaluate statements like these the same way my teachers encouraged me to evaluate sermons.<br/><br/>Start by asking the simple question, "So, where's the Gospel in this?" I usually evaluate statements like these the same way my teachers encouraged me to evaluate sermons.

Start by asking the simple question, “So, where’s the Gospel in this?”

]]> By: Fr. J. http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1437 Fr. J. Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:46:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1437 I am not sure what you are getting at, but I will take a stab at it. First, let me say that I dont believe KJS's statement to be wrong on the face of it--it is similar to Mother Teresa's point of view in teaching us to care for Christ in the disgise of the poor. KJS's statement has metaphorical flaws as have already been pointed out and she picks and chooses which metaphors to apply. Notice she did not speak of Christ the unborn child in the womb whom his unwed mother kept at all costs.<br/><br/>So, the principle difference I can see in the two quotes is that Benedict describes Christ's action for the sake of eternity, while KJS describes Christ's action for the sake of this world only, and only from a liberal political point of view. Benedict's Christ is moral as well as spiritual--be like Christ in every way and all will be well in the Kingdom not of this world. KJS's Christ is less moral than moralistic--get on board the liberal agenda and all will be well on planet earth.<br/><br/>KJS's image of Christ is that he agrees with her politics. Benedict's image of Christ is that he is the one to follow and imitate wherever he may lead regardless of politics.<br/><br/>For Benedict, Christ is sovereign and irreducible to an agenda, a plan. For KJS, Christ is the examplar of her particular plan and vision for the world. <br/><br/>Christ should use us, rather than us use him... I could go on and on and on.<br/><br/>Merry Christmas and God Bless you all. I am not sure what you are getting at, but I will take a stab at it. First, let me say that I dont believe KJS’s statement to be wrong on the face of it–it is similar to Mother Teresa’s point of view in teaching us to care for Christ in the disgise of the poor. KJS’s statement has metaphorical flaws as have already been pointed out and she picks and chooses which metaphors to apply. Notice she did not speak of Christ the unborn child in the womb whom his unwed mother kept at all costs.

So, the principle difference I can see in the two quotes is that Benedict describes Christ’s action for the sake of eternity, while KJS describes Christ’s action for the sake of this world only, and only from a liberal political point of view. Benedict’s Christ is moral as well as spiritual–be like Christ in every way and all will be well in the Kingdom not of this world. KJS’s Christ is less moral than moralistic–get on board the liberal agenda and all will be well on planet earth.

KJS’s image of Christ is that he agrees with her politics. Benedict’s image of Christ is that he is the one to follow and imitate wherever he may lead regardless of politics.

For Benedict, Christ is sovereign and irreducible to an agenda, a plan. For KJS, Christ is the examplar of her particular plan and vision for the world.

Christ should use us, rather than us use him… I could go on and on and on.

Merry Christmas and God Bless you all.

]]> By: Tomas http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1432 Tomas Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:52:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1432 Kind of like the typical Anglican:<br/><br/>"let's be nice to each other because nice Jesus was nice and let's feel nicelly fuzzy and warm about it."<br/><br/>Wasn't it something like the pamphlet that the Anglican hierarchy released last Christmas (or was it Easter?) Kind of like the typical Anglican:

“let’s be nice to each other because nice Jesus was nice and let’s feel nicelly fuzzy and warm about it.”

Wasn’t it something like the pamphlet that the Anglican hierarchy released last Christmas (or was it Easter?)

]]> By: Rob http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1431 Rob Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:00:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1431 Sadly, Bishop Schori's message reminds me of every Christmas homily I have ever heard in the Catholic Church, except for last year, when I heard an FSSP homily. Sadly, Bishop Schori’s message reminds me of every Christmas homily I have ever heard in the Catholic Church, except for last year, when I heard an FSSP homily.

]]> By: NiceneHobbit http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1430 NiceneHobbit Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:50:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1430 Dave (318@Nice),<br/> Thank you for the explanation. I'd just never heard it called that before, but I do know what ur talking about now.<br/> I guess I just didn't see that in the lady's words quoted, but I DO know that many, many believe the silliness ur talking about.<br/> For ME, the term "Cosmic Christ" has nothing to do with the heresy you mentioned but means, as St. Paul tells us, that Christ now "fills all things with Himself" and "upholds the world with His word of power". The Cosmic Christ teaching you mentioned is, of course, the rankest heresy. Dave (318@Nice),
Thank you for the explanation. I’d just never heard it called that before, but I do know what ur talking about now.
I guess I just didn’t see that in the lady’s words quoted, but I DO know that many, many believe the silliness ur talking about.
For ME, the term “Cosmic Christ” has nothing to do with the heresy you mentioned but means, as St. Paul tells us, that Christ now “fills all things with Himself” and “upholds the world with His word of power”. The Cosmic Christ teaching you mentioned is, of course, the rankest heresy.

]]> By: David Zampino http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1426 David Zampino Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:19:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1426 She's a lightweight. She was the marginally successful "bishop" of a tiny, tiny diocese who owes her election to nothing more than political correctness run amuck.<br/><br/>Interestingly enough, the one minority group she doesn't seem to want to serve (and certainly didn't address in her message) are the conservatives left in the Episcopal church.<br/><br/>Sad. She’s a lightweight. She was the marginally successful “bishop” of a tiny, tiny diocese who owes her election to nothing more than political correctness run amuck.

Interestingly enough, the one minority group she doesn’t seem to want to serve (and certainly didn’t address in her message) are the conservatives left in the Episcopal church.

Sad.

]]> By: Judge373 http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1425 Judge373 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:08:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1425 My initial reaction is that Schori's message is poorly written and lacking in substance, while Benedict's is the opposite. My initial reaction is that Schori’s message is poorly written and lacking in substance, while Benedict’s is the opposite.

]]> By: David B. http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1420 David B. Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:20:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1420 I have to agree with the other commenters that the message of Presiding Bishop Schori is not problematic simply on account of what she says. Perhaps it is said from the influence of progressive theology, but I can't say it is necessarily bad, although as Luther Punk rightly points out, Mary and Joseph were not homeless. If anything, the Christmas message relates more to travelers who happen to be in a town when a massive convention is going on ;). I have to agree with the other commenters that the message of Presiding Bishop Schori is not problematic simply on account of what she says. Perhaps it is said from the influence of progressive theology, but I can’t say it is necessarily bad, although as Luther Punk rightly points out, Mary and Joseph were not homeless. If anything, the Christmas message relates more to travelers who happen to be in a town when a massive convention is going on ;).

]]> By: 318@NICE http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1418 318@NICE Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:40:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1418 No, actually, the "Cosmic Christ" heresy was out in the late 1800's, condemned by the Church. However, has been revived by many Catholic Scholars like Rahner, etc. <br/>Actually, it started to creep back into the Catholic Church back in the 1950's. After Vatican II, it exploded. <br/>For example, if you are Catholic and you own a New American Bible or New Jerusalem Bible, you will notice that the introductory notes and footnotes include higher criticism and the cosmic Christ teaching.<br/>This teaching is summed up like this:<br/>Christ is the superman, who draws all do himself, the whole world, humans and creation itself is evolving towards Christ, humanity is evolving into another form, and that humanity would be united to one divine force: Jesus Christ, the Superman, i.e., the "Cosmic Christ" bringing all of humanity to himself, this is the true coming of Christ.<br/>So instead of Conversion by faith in Christ, the true historical Christ, who was God and man, through the Sacraments of the Church, this teaching gears more towards building a solidarity amongst all men, a unity of all men through love, solving problems of hunger, poverty, disease, basically creating a new race of humans which would be void of original sin, and becoming more like Christ. Thus, this is the redemption of mankind and all creation. <br/><br/>Such teaching is not new and is not uncommon in Catholic seminaries. <br/><br/>Dave No, actually, the “Cosmic Christ” heresy was out in the late 1800’s, condemned by the Church. However, has been revived by many Catholic Scholars like Rahner, etc.
Actually, it started to creep back into the Catholic Church back in the 1950’s. After Vatican II, it exploded.
For example, if you are Catholic and you own a New American Bible or New Jerusalem Bible, you will notice that the introductory notes and footnotes include higher criticism and the cosmic Christ teaching.
This teaching is summed up like this:
Christ is the superman, who draws all do himself, the whole world, humans and creation itself is evolving towards Christ, humanity is evolving into another form, and that humanity would be united to one divine force: Jesus Christ, the Superman, i.e., the “Cosmic Christ” bringing all of humanity to himself, this is the true coming of Christ.
So instead of Conversion by faith in Christ, the true historical Christ, who was God and man, through the Sacraments of the Church, this teaching gears more towards building a solidarity amongst all men, a unity of all men through love, solving problems of hunger, poverty, disease, basically creating a new race of humans which would be void of original sin, and becoming more like Christ. Thus, this is the redemption of mankind and all creation.

Such teaching is not new and is not uncommon in Catholic seminaries.

Dave

]]> By: NiceneHobbit http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1417 NiceneHobbit Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:28:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1417 Frankly, I see nothing wrong with either statement. Of course, as Catholics, we will give greater heed to the words of the Supreme Pontiff. <br/> Now, I absolutely loathe the Episcopal church, don't get me wrong, but...in this particular case and with the words shown...I wholeheartedly agree. We ARE to see Christ in those around us...both those who are needy and those who do good in His Name. I don't see the problem there.<br/> Now, I have a question, seriously...What is the "Cosmic Christ heresy". That's a new one on me. Good grief, don't tell me someone came up with a new one! Frankly, I see nothing wrong with either statement. Of course, as Catholics, we will give greater heed to the words of the Supreme Pontiff.
Now, I absolutely loathe the Episcopal church, don’t get me wrong, but…in this particular case and with the words shown…I wholeheartedly agree. We ARE to see Christ in those around us…both those who are needy and those who do good in His Name. I don’t see the problem there.
Now, I have a question, seriously…What is the “Cosmic Christ heresy”. That’s a new one on me. Good grief, don’t tell me someone came up with a new one!

]]> By: LutherPunk http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1415 LutherPunk Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:22:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1415 Forgive a Lutheran for interpreting the Bible here, but last time I read the Gospels it didn't say anything about Mary, Joseph or Jesus being homeless. They were stranded travelers. They were no more homeless than I was the year I got stuck overnight in the Dallas airport at Christmas because all the local hotels were booked. Forgive a Lutheran for interpreting the Bible here, but last time I read the Gospels it didn’t say anything about Mary, Joseph or Jesus being homeless. They were stranded travelers. They were no more homeless than I was the year I got stuck overnight in the Dallas airport at Christmas because all the local hotels were booked.

]]> By: 318@NICE http://blog.ancient-future.net/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1414 318@NICE Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:05:00 +0000 http://perchristumblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/seasons-greetings/#comment-1414 Well, one is showing the Traditional apostolic teaching and the latter shows the new Christ, the "cosmic Christ" heresy.<br/><br/>I choose the former<br/><br/>Dave Well, one is showing the Traditional apostolic teaching and the latter shows the new Christ, the “cosmic Christ” heresy.

I choose the former

Dave

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