Per Christum

23 Responses to “Assyrians Elect To Enter Into Full Commnunion w/ Catholic Church”

1. Rob Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 3:16 am

   Is this as big a deal as I think? An Orthodox church reuniting with the RCC? I realize that the Assyrian is not a huge church, but they are a recognized Orthodox church, right?

2. David B. Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 3:29 am

   I admit I am a bit confused as to which Assyrians are entering into full communion with the Catholic Church here. Does anybody have any more information (since the “about us” page is in arabic on the page linked to)?

   What is the relationship of this group to Assyrian Church of the East? His Grace Mar Bawai Soro seems to have been primarily educated in Catholic institutions. Either way, it looks very interesting, and it is always encouraging when two Christian bodies seek communion.

3. bpfick Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 3:45 am

   Personally the news on both the Assyrian front and the guarded optimism surrounding the application by the TAC and the rumors of progress is a matter for fervent and grateful and expectant prayer.

4. The young fogey Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 4:01 am

   The Assyrians (also called the Church of the East, commonly called Nestorians in the West), the native Christians of what’s now Iraq, are an Eastern church not under Rome but not all such are Orthodox. The (Eastern) Orthodox are a communion of Byzantine Rite churches for the most part, the second largest church in the world IIRC: Russians, Greeks, some other Eastern Europeans and some Arabs. Then there’s the Oriental Orthodox communion (of different rites) - Copts, Ethiopians, Armenians and Syrians including the Malankara Church of India (part of the Syrian Church). Then there are the Assyrians, with their own rite, split off from mainstream Christianity since the Council of Ephesus but like the others essentially small-o orthodox.

   They’re unique among Eastern churches in that the split-off that’s under Rome, the Chaldean Catholic Church, is bigger than its Nestorian parent church and is Iraq’s biggest church.

   I understand there is a schism among the Assyrians, an old hard-line group that’s old-calendar and not ecumenical, and then there’s the church under the patriarch, Mar Dinkha IV, who lives in Chicago (yes, a real Eastern church has its patriarchate in the US!), which at least recently has been friendly to Rome. But apparently this bishop, Mar Bawai Soro, was removed from this church in late 2005 (I don’t know why)…

   So no, the Assyrian Church as a whole isn’t going under Rome… this bishop (head of a rogue diocese?) who used to be in that church says he wants to go under Rome.

   Which I imagine would mean the Chaldean Catholic Church would get a little bigger, that’s all.

   Historical note: the Maronite Church, which has been explicitly under Rome since the 1100s IIRC, began rather like this. St Maron essentially was a vagante bishop split off from the Syrian Church; the Maronites are the Lebanon’s native church. They were Monothelites for a while then went under the Pope when the Crusaders came.

5. Rob Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 4:15 am

   -Mar Dinkha IV, who lives in Chicago-

   I figure he went there either for the food, the music, or both.

6. A Simple Sinner Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 4:51 am

   Rob,

   It isn’t a whole church, en masse. And it is not accurate to call them “Orthodox” - that is a term they do not use for themselves… though they are Eastern. Their counterpart in the Catholic Church, as noted, is the Chaldean Catholic Church. Sometimes also referred to as the Chaldean-Assyrian Catholic Church.

   This group in particular is a body of about 3,000 Christians in the US who were excommunicated or isolated from the Patriarch (who yes, as Serge points out, does live in Chicago) and underwent successive legal battles to hold unto their churches which they lost. I will leave you gentle blog-o-files to sort through the details of the causes of the split by googling and going to http://www.marbawai.com/, the blogspot of His Grace Mar Bawai Soro. I don’t feel I can do it justice, and like any two-party split, there are probably at least three sides to this story!

   Mar Bawai had largely been trained in Rome, which is common enough. Start to look into +++BARTHOLOMEW of Constantinoples resume, you will realize he went to seminary in Rome, as did a goodly number of Russian Orthodox bishops. Rome has been very ecumenical in that regard - it has long opened up its seminary programs and resources to non-Catholic Eastern Christians.

   As to the size of this possible unia, news reports I am reading show it includes about 6 priests and “30 deacons” but the “30 deacons” may include many or all sub-deacons… (That is a whole lot of deacons which, don’t get me wrong, I would love to have per capita in every church but…)

   (Chaldean Father Ragheen Gassanni, whom I have written about here, when killed last year in Iraq had three Chaldean sub-deacons with him, but all news reports that first came down the wire just referred to them as deacons…)

   Now I am reading that there were two “English congregations” that were with Mar Bawai. What exactly that means (were they anglophone converts???) I don’t know.

   So while this may not consitute an end to a schism between Assyrians and Catholics, it is kind of significant when 3,000 people enter your communion.

   On the plus side for further ecumenical efforts between the Catholic and Assyrian Churches, it is my hope that it will be recognized that this arrangement is preferrable to the creation of a FOURTH (or possibly fifth) split in the Assyrian Community…

   …Several decades ago The Assyrian Church of the East had a split which lead to the creation of “The ANCIENT Church of the East” dividing Assyrians between the Church of the East, Ancient Church of the East and Chaldean Catholic Church. Pragmatically speaking realignment over further division would be preferable.

   (I know of what I speak, there was a Greek Catholic Parish in a town outside of Pittsburgh that in the end divided into FIVE parishes belonging to five different diocese. They were so close together you could almost hop from the steps of one to the next. On summer days when windows were open, each could hear the other signing. Today are all limping along, when they could have one really solid strong parish.)

7. The young fogey Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 1:42 pm

   Thanks for the additional info: so if Rome took in this ex-Assyrian bishop and 3,000 people, sort of a church unto themselves right now (which is what they mean by ‘ecclesial isolation’), they would join the Chaldean Catholics.

   The patriarch and his church deciding to go under Rome would be news but again nothing new - that’s how the Melkites went over to Rome in 1724 and in their beginning that was true of the Ukrainian Catholics as the Metropolitan of Kiev went over with them in 1596 - but again history would repeat itself. Unlike with the Maronites where they all went under the Pope there’d still be an independent Nestorian Church, the little hard-line one.

   That’s true about many Eastern clerics getting Roman training. Once met somebody from St Nersess Armenian Seminary in America, Dr (Fr) Daniel Findikyan, and he studied in Rome. Nice man.

   Bringing TAC into Rome corporately is theoretically possible but I question its likelihood based on history. Archbishop John Hepworth (met him once) reminds me of Abp Bernard Mary Williams in England decades ago though the latter had far fewer people (him, his wife and kids, his few priests and their families). He said the same thing: we believe everything Rome does and want to come in but with our own discipline (married clergy, services in English). Rome ignored them.

   Then there’s the hostility from some English-speaking RCs both because of Modernism (liberals with much in common with many Episcopalians; they’d like to have women priests and gay weddings and don’t want a bunch of conservative Catholics coming in - possibly why Pope Benedict likes them and is serious about bringing them in) and Irish antipathy to things English and Anglican, both reasons why the RC Anglican Use has never been encouraged/promoted in America, only begrudgingly tolerated for a few ex-Episcopalians in Texas. ‘My (holy) father MADE me invite them.’

8. A Simple Sinner Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 2:42 pm

   Serge, I know well from what you write you were fairly brutalized/scandalized during your brief stint in the RCC in America. I feel badly about that indeed.

   But these times they are a-changing, and frankly I see the pro-gay wedding & lady priest crowd as graying and going the way of the dinosaur. To be sure, they are not gone, and some will always be with us, poppy up from time to time like a “coelacanth suprise”… But I don’t think that precludes the possibility that many of those days are behind us.

   TAC rumors being what they are - rumors - it is hard to tell what direction that move will go, or if all parties can hammer out an agreement.

   15 years ago if you would have told me that:

   + Greek Catholic bishops would resume the ordination of married men in the US,
   + the Latin Mass would be freed up to be celebrated by any Roman priest,
   + that the Fraternity of Saint Peter would be packed to the gills with seminarians,
   + or that they would even BUILD a seminary,
   + or that other seminaries would expand,
   + or the student population at the local sem would double,
   + or that I would be able to name 2 dozen GROWING, HABIT-WEARING religious orders filled with bright-young things under 35
   + or that 4 Episcopal bishops would become Catholic in one year
   + or that in the course of three or four years 25+ top theologians and respected Lutheran and Episcopal clergy would become Catholic
   + or that a group of traditionlists in Brazil would be brought back en masse with a personal prelature
   + or that the president of the Evangelical Theological Society would return to the Catholic Church
   + or that “Roe” of “Roe” v. Wade would become a Catholic and a pro-life activist

   If you would have told me some or any of that 15 years ago, I would have told you to quit doing drugs, sober up and come down to reality.

   How happily wrong I was.

   So I am going to be audatiously optimistic - enough so for the both of us - and go out on a limb and say “its possible, send up more prayers!”

   Pappa B, so sayeth interweb rumors, is still hashing these things out.

   As far as the reception (if it goes through) of the Assyrian bishop and his partial flock, well I am hopeful. Hopeful for it even if just for the pragmatic reasoning that splitting the “Assyrian ecclesial pie” further that between the Chaldeans, ACofE and Ancient Church of the East would be worse still to a community persecuted in the homeland and under risk of greater assimilation in the “diaspora” that a temporary freeze in pan-Assyrian dialogue.

   Assyrians need four churches on every corner in the Assyrian neighborhoods about as badly as McKees Rocks, PA needs a BCC, OCA, ACROD, UGCC & UOC parish (all originating from the same Galician community) all within the site of each other’s front door. Hitting up “the Rocks” these days on a sunday is heartwrenching. Each congregation is limping along for now. They could make one hardy parish.

9. The young fogey Says:
   January 29, 2008 at 3:03 pm

   Re: my objection to lady priests, the larger church past and present didn’t/doesn’t do that. ‘That’s it?’ That’s it. Once you accept that, and it’s a powerful reason for Catholics, the Pope’s and others’ logic makes sense.

   I’ve blogged positively about the slowly building RC restoration. Last Christmas for example.

   As Thomas Day has explained to me (friend John Treat says every Anglo-Catholic can quote him chapter and verse) they aren’t home but I wish them nothing but good.

   Did the five schisms in McKees Rock happen all at once or at different times? (Russian diocese/OCA in the 1890s-1910s, UGCC in the 1890s-1920s, ACROD and the UOC in the 1930s?)

   Regarding division and weakness, point taken. The academic chronicler of Ruthenianness, Paul Magosci, himself an agnostic who goes to a Protestant church because he likes the music, has pointed out that thanks to all these schisms there are more ethnic Ruthenians in the United Methodist Church today than in the Greek Catholic Church in America.

10. bpfick Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    How it is that this Holy Father has such an affinity toward Anglicans is unclear to me, but I must say, that His Holiness brings a certain gift, a certain anointed gift to this equation. One almost senses that there is a holy moment here, a genuine opportunity to bring a lasting change in the landscape of Christian unity. Looking past the TAC’s PB and the sticky issues of his particular personal situation, the fact remains that this is a opportunity that the Pope seems unwilling to just let slip by. Courage. Prayer. Hope.

11. The young fogey Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    The Pope, a German, doesn’t share the prejudice Thomas Day described (the persecuted Irish resenting the English), is not a Modernist and possibly as a northern European has some affinity with the English.

    Strictly speaking, and this is how I use these terms, TAC aren’t Anglicans. They were founded by former Anglicans. An Anglican belongs to the Anglican Communion, which means more or less his bishop is invited to the Lambeth Conference hosted by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    IOW TAC are to Anglicans are Mar Bawai Soro and his diocese are to Assyrians. Exes.

    Yes, Abp H is a married former RC priest. But obviously not a liberal one. Somebody wrote recently that he’s willing to step down if it’ll bring TAC into Rome.

12. A Simple Sinner Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Serge, don’t quote me as a source on this, but I seem to recall the division went in this order

    1) Greek-Catholic/Orthodox split
    2) division of Ruthenian/Ukie hiearchy betwen Catholics
    3) Ukrainian trusteeship split - the Orthodox kept that parish
    4) ACROD/BCC split.

    I think.

    I do acknowledge and admire your recognition and praise of Roman revival. Certainly you do that. And I should apologize if I seemed overly defensive. It is a mode I go into after typical Rust-belt parochial school indoctrination by Sr. Mary Pantsuit & Father High-criticism… I was raised being told that married RC priests would have to happen, and the next Pope would “get with the program” and ordain lady priests, that NO ONE went to seminary, ABC was NEVER talked about, and that sisters in habits would one day just be a footnote to a black & white photograph in a history book.

    Several years on, I grew hip to their efforts at self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course back then, darkest before the dawn, a lot of the “good stuff” that was about to occur and is occuring was only in the dreams of some prayerful hopeful people.

    Bp Fick,

    I widely share your sentiments here. Really, as a matter of fact, I am of the thinking that that efforts to reach out and regather more groups and individuals still, are part of his vision.

    Fr. J wrote about this in a post aptly titled “Benedict the Re-gatherer”. Alas, since I am out of coffee this morning, I am feeling too lazy to create a link in the combox to it. Google it, its worth it!

13. A Simple Sinner Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    RE: ” Paul Magosci, himself an agnostic who goes to a Protestant church because he likes the music, has pointed out that thanks to all these schisms there are more ethnic Ruthenians in the United Methodist Church today than in the Greek Catholic Church in America. “

    Honestly, this could well be. But I am not sure that it is because of the schism per se. We have discussed here there and in other places still some of the difficulties “we easterners” have in transmitting our heritage to a third or fourth assimilated generation.

    If I had a dollar for every Eastern Christian (of any stripe) who didn’t practice ANY faith, or went to the local Catholic or megachurch, I would have more than a few dollars.

    Perhaps this can be turned on its head a bit and we can wonder, were it not for the nationalism and ethnic factor, would there in turn be more ex-Methodists in the Byzantine Church?

    Hard to say.

14. The young fogey Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    I got the timeline in McKees Rocks about right: the Toth split to the Russian Orthodox at the turn of the last century, then Rome separating Ruthenians and Ukrainians in America (they didn’t get on) in 1924 and then the founding of ACROD out of the Ruthenians in the 1930s with a trustee fight among the Ukes in the same period. Thanks for the history.

    …the next Pope would “get with the program” and ordain lady priests.

    Funny how liberal RCs and anti-Romish Protestants and Orthodox ascribe to the Pope a power Pius IX never dared claim. Like he could wave his hand today and Rome would have gay marriage.

15. Katherine Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    It is my understanding that while Mar Bawai Soro has announced he is seeking full communion with the Holy See, there has been no statement by the Catholic Church in return and that there is a concern by the Catholic Church as to how this may damage relations with the Assyrian Church.

    While Mar Soro served as bishop of the Western diocese of the Assyrian Church (before the difficulties) he authorized two parishes of former Anglicans, one in Seattle, the other I know not where. These are the two English parishes referenced.

    BTW, the Assyrian Church has rather warm relations with the Anglicans and as many of its clergy are educated in Anglican institutions as Roman Catholic.

16. The young fogey Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    I thought of that, Katherine. There’s a story that the Macedonian Orthodox Church, a schism started by the Yugoslav government in 1967 and not recognised by the Orthodox, approached Rome but Rome said no.

    Do those two ex-Anglican parishes use the Assyrian Rite or something Anglican like most Western Rite Orthodox do?

    I think the Assyrians under the patriarch are unique among real Eastern churches in that like Anglicans they have a kind of open Communion, allowing Romans and Anglicans to receive (which the Anglicans allow but the Romans don’t unless there is no Roman priest available).

    AFAIK the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East is like other Eastern churches: they believe they’re the one true church and no intercommunion.

17. A Simple Sinner Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Karen, what you say is true, there has been no official Catholic response to this announcement.

    Additionally this is the sort of shake up that could create ecumenical problems…

    BUT, from what I have read and observed, a sort of pan-Assyrian fraternity exists in a fashion where, as I have noted above, it may be more desirable or forgiveable to see a re-alignment than a creation of a new body.

    And thank you for answering my question about the Englih congregations. I was uncertain the references there… I had noted some blond-haired, blue-eyed lads & lasses at church youth picnic photos… But that just as easily could have indicated boyfriends/girlfriends were interested in some hamburgers…

    How did you come accross this info? Do you know if they are a “western rite” community of sorts, or strictly an English language community using the Assyrian liturgy?

18. A Simple Sinner Says:
    January 29, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    The following was posted over at ByzCath:

    Hi all,

    I registered on this site in order to ease the confusion and misunderstanding of the recent steps taking by Dr. Mar Bawai Soro.

    I was a member of the Assyrian Church of the East (ACOE) until corruption enveloped the hierarchy of the Holy Church of my forefathers and ancestors. This was after the current Patriarch of the ACOE allowed a Bishop (Mar Aprim Khamis) that committed adultery with a Pakistani Muslim (Yasmine Khan) to remain in his bishopric duties against the canons of the Church. Unfortunately, this news was kept in the closet until a Chicago Tribune reporter stumbled on the adultery of this bishop and the blackmail he had paid towards the Pakistani woman.

    http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/2001/7.23.01/index.php#ZindaSays

    Sadly, this wasn’t the only time this Patriarch went against the canons in the Church. In 1994, Mar Dinkha, the ACOE Patriarch, along with his bishops met with the Holy Father, St. John Paul II, in order to pave a tangible road towards unity and communion. Finally, the Church of the East would end its ~1500 years of ecclesiastical isolation. Since Assyrians have been isolated for such a long time the reception to this news was mixed. Please read Mar Bawai’s assessment of the news by fellow Assyrians:

    http://www.cired.org/cat/04_Reception_of_the_CCD.pdf

    The ACOE entered within its own sunhadoos (canon laws) this common christological declaration as well as their effort to reestablish unity within the church through the Joint-Committee for Theological Dialogue.

    http://www.cired.org/cat/03_Joint_Statement_1995.pdf

    Without notice Mar Dinkha, ACOE Patriarch, suspended this committee and took no more interest in the unity with the Roman Catholic church. Rumors flooded all the dioceses of the ACOE that Mar Dinkha did not want to submit to the Pope. Ironically, the Joint-Committee for Theological Dialogue was no longer active around the year 2000. This was the same time that the corruption of the ACOE flooded the church halls in regards to the Bishop blackmailed by Yasmine Khan.

    Mar Bawai Soro did not stop campaigning for unity within the church as well as striving for accountability. He was the only bishop in the Church who intentionally did not sign the 2001 ACOE Synod regarding the adulterous Bishop Khamis’ minor punishment following his affairs and paid blackmail. Mar Bawai was interviewed on TV and stated that to sign the Synod would place him under anathema as he would actively go against the Canons of the church by allowing Bishop Khamis to still carry out bishopric duties within the church when his Canon punishment was to be defrocked. Interestingly, the Canon of Mar Odisho states that if a bishop is caught committing adultery he must be defrocked immediately and if not the entire Synod will be placed under “khormeh” (anathema).

    After his failed attempt for accountability within the church, Mar Bawai started amplifying his message of unity between the Chaldean Catholic Church of the East and the Assyrian Church of the East through the path towards Vatican. Many isolationists within the church started to actively campaign against Mar Bawai for such unifying views. They did not want to be “papayeh”–an assyrian derogatory term for Catholics. During this time, a famous satellite program “Assyria Sat” started to not only belittle Catholics but also our brothers and sisters in the Chaldean Church. Soon certain bishops, the very same that accompanied the Patriarch’s meeting with H.H. John Paul II, started to appear on his television program and in front of their church flock speaking against both the Chaldean and Roman Catholic Church. These bishops began to be known as “isolationists” and the bishops that were for unity as “integrationists.” For more information please read the below report on the bishops’ views and some of their controversies. It is quite interesting to see only two bishops (Mar Bawai Soro and Mar Aprem Mookin) as pro-unity and they are also the only educated ones as well.

    http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/2002/8.12.02/index.php#TheLighthouse

    Some of our people, especially those that remain in the Assyrian Church of the East in light of corruption and reckless mismanagement, seem to have forgotten the oath Mar Dinkha took with His Holiness St. John Paul II. In light of more corruption charges which not only included the adulterous bishop but another bishop in Australia who was accused of not only participating in Ponzi Scheme that bankrupted Australia of over 100 million dollars, but have immoral relations with a divorcee Eva George.

    http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/2005/10.5.05/index_wed.php#TheLighthouse

    When Mar Bawai in 2005 was mysteriously suspended on grounds that “he disobeyed the patriarch” because he wrote two confidential letters regarding his alarming concern over the illegal abandonment of the unity quest based on the 2004 Common Christological Declaration with Vatican and the 2007 Ecclesiastical Understanding agreement with the Chaldean Catholic Church as well as the inaction towards the grave vow breaking of certain bishops and clergy, many people within the church basically said “enough is enough.”

    The Santa Cruz District Court found no fault in Mar Bawai’s finances or his duty as a Bishop. They only ruled that the buildings he was in supervising are no longer his as he had been excommunicated by the ACOE. Regardless if their decision is canonical or not, the churches belonged to the Synod of the ACOE.

    Those that actively left the ACOE and who are members of Mar Bawai’s international diocese, are not only active in unity and dialogue with our Chaldean brothers and sisters, but we are also very active with our Ancient Church of the East parishioners. We believe that our sustained movement will not only restore unity and accountability within Christ’s body in the Eastern Christian sect, but more importantly we will be able to better propel Christianity in a world where sin and distraction is force that needs to be reckoned with.

    I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

    May God lead us in unity and fellowship in order to pursue Christ’s Mission on earth.

    God Bless!
    ************************
    Anyone who dares can go look at http://www.betnahrain.org/bbs/ the Assyrian equivalent of ByzCath.

    If you don’t want to be brought down and depressed by the sort of comments you would not expect from Christians, you may do well to avoid it.

19. Anonymous Says:
    January 30, 2008 at 2:24 am

    Dear All,

    Peace be with you…

    Before I begin, please allow me to introduce myself. I am Anthony, one of the sub-deacons who is within the diocese of H.G. Mar Bawai Soro, and one of the people in the original signing of the declaration of intent. I don’t represent in any ways the official voice of the diocese, but wanted to clear up some questions I ran into… opinions from my personal experience and knowledge of these matters.

    1 – First, in regards to the size of the group, we have about 3 dozen priests and deacons as someone pointed out. Estimates of the number of people who support this movement will only lead to banter about numbers and people are always prone to over exaggerate anyways, so I don’t want to even take a guess at it, suffice it to say, it is a sizeable number of families. The declaration of intent is supported by the whole diocese that has chosen to support Mar Bawai, seeing that he is walking according to the path of our Lord. Most of the deacons are men with family, while there is a good number of subdeacons and readers who are also involved.

    2 – In regards to the Institution Narrative: Although the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari was found to be valid without the explicit recital of the words, the insertion of the Narrative was allowed for by the ACOE {Assyrian Church of the East} and we have indeed recited it in our Liturgy services. It was especially a sign of our desire for unity with the other Apostolic traditions, and specifically with our Chaldean brothers.

    3 – One person asked about the the new Chaldean liturgy, and indeed it has been brought back more in line with its traditional roots.

    4 – Someone asked about English Congregations. There are two parishes within the Diocese that are comprised of mostly English speaking members. They are the parishes of St. Barnabas the Apostle and St. Thomas. The priests of those two congregations are extremely knowledgeable in the Syriac tradition and especially the Church of the East. Both have been a wealth of information and a source of spiritual enlightenment to me.

    Now, I will address the situation. Others have remarked on the history of what has happened, and they have talked about the reason of dispute and why our bishop was treated thus badly. It will be a long posting if I try to talk about it, and it is not the reason of my posting.

    Instead, I will address it from the standpoint of someone who is within the parish which is the cathedral of our diocese. Our parish has always been close to our brothers within the Chaldean Catholic Church in San Jose. From long before I was a regular attendee, the two parishes had always had a strong bond between them, especially as signified by the co-celebration of the “Rogation of the Ninevites” and the Feast of Thanksgiving the day after the 3 day rogation. To me personally, the priest of St. Mary’s {Catholic Church} has been a personal spiritual father to me just as the priests within my own parish and my diocese.

    The CCD which was signed helped foster that situation, and it was with great sadness that many of us saw that people were trying to break the relationship between us, especially in light of the other bishops’ refusal to put into effect what would have been the natural conclusions of the talks with Rome.

    If Christological differences are resolved, and Sacraments are respected, and even if somehow a step further was taken in regards to our respective patristics, and if our Church tradition, and fathers too, quite clearly state the primacy of Rome, since it is the blessed city in whom are laid two preachers, Peter and Paul {paraphrase from our liturgical books in the Feast of Sts Peter and Paul, for more information, see“In Defense of Our Faith” in http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/ar…/index_wed.php } then what is to keep us from unity with the Chaldean church? It is the branch of our Church that is in communion with Rome. Why would we not pursue unity? Is it a matter of profane vanity and pride in trying to preserve our own positions? A lack of desire for accountability to our own traditions, and to the Apostolic faith? Why?

    This split had long ago stopped being an internal dispute. I agree with ASimpleSinner who stated that this thing not being solved internally might in the long run be beneficial to all Assyrian Christians. This is not a petty material dispute. We do not follow Mar Bawai just because of some personal preference. We have taken a stand based upon our faith and our desire to be Orthodox and ever faithful to the traditions of our Church!

    In response to Isa Almisry’s question {“how is submitted to Rome going to solve the scandal?”}, our desire join in communion with Rome and to enter the Chaldean Church is not an attempt to resolve scandal. It is that we must be in communion with fellow Christians. We cannot just be on our own, standing “contra mundum,” nor was that ever our intention. We did not want splintering, but rather unity. We did not look to hate, but only to be established in love. And we definitely did not want to start another splinter within the Church of the East. So that is not an option… having a fourth, then maybe fifth, then sixth, etc,etc, branch. No, we remain faithful to our tradition as put forward by our Saints, Doctors, and Fathers. The Church of the East is the “Catholic Church in the East,” meaning it is NOT supposed to be standing alone outside of communion with all, just for whatever reason it feels like, but rather it is to seek to fulfill our Lord’s Prayer and words… “That they all may be one”. (John 17:21)

    In conclusion, I ask, please pray that the Lord guide our humble diocese in this journey as we seek the Lord, following His light. And rejoice my brothers in Christ, remembering our Lord Jesus Christ’s declaration, “I have other sheep … they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock …” (John 10:16)

    In Christ,
    Anthony

20. John C. Hathaway Says:
    February 19, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Young Fogey,

    St. Maron lived in the 5th Century. The Maronites are different from all other rites in that they were not the result of a “split” or schism or heresy. The Maronites were essentially a religious order before religious orders were common. St. Maron basically started an Order that was recognized as a new Rite insteda of an Order. The Maronites are one of only two eastern Churches (the other is one of the Indian churches) that have *never* been in schism.

21. Dan Says:
    July 26, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Anthony,

    Very well said. As a Latin Rite Catholic, thank you for your prayerful work in restoring the unity and communion of our Lord’s Mystical Body. I pray for the Chaldean Catholics and other Assyrian Churches during their time of persecution.

    Yours in Christ,
    Dan

22. Michael Woerl Says:
    August 9, 2008 at 12:27 am

    The Assyrian Church is not an Orthodox Church; the Assyrians who joined the Roman Catholics are not an entire church, but only the aherents of a disobedient bishop who abandoned his lawful hierarchy. This is just another sorry example of the Roman Catholic meddling in affairs that are none of their business and that, obviously, they did not undertsand before they stuck their nose in!

23. asimplesinner Says:
    August 9, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Ah Michael…

    Taking great pains to point out that the Assyrians are NOT Orthodox (by your definition) you then go on to bemoan the wildly pedantic claims that this initiative is from “Roman meddling”.

    Dare I suggest your comment is symptomatic of just another example of non-Catholics sticking their nose into Catholic concerns?

Leave a Reply

Name (required)

Mail (will not be published) (required)

Website