What Liturgical Color Would You Say That Is?
A photograph of Bp. Tod Brown of the Diocese of Orange County celebrating agape love feast at the Los Angeles Religious Education Conference - sometimes dubbed “Mahoney Fest”…
Over the years this conference has been a RICH source of photographs of liturgical dancing, use of unapproved (illegal) vessels for the Eucharist, and over-all whimsical tom-foolery in all things liturgic… One conference alone tides the blogosphere over for 12 months until the next. Really, you couldn’t ASK for better examples of liturgical abuses. If it weren’t so well known of an event, people would honestly start to accuse some of us bloggers of doctoring these photos and making this stuff up.
Stuff this good, you just can’t make up.
So I ask you gentle readers if you can help me in understanding exactly what liturgical color that is that Bp. Brown is wearing. At first I thought it might have been purple and the photographs were just deceiving… But then I noticed several photos of him standing next to deacons that were wearing discernible purple colored stoles, so that theory is shot. (BTW, are dalmatics for deacons suppressed in the ArchD of LA? I have never seen one…)
Anyone?
David Bennett
Jennifer
asimplesinner
Fr. J.
Chad Toney
Jorge Flores
Jonathan B
carmelbennett
nicenehobbit
Jason S
jaybird68
papaz
March 5, 2008 at 1:07 am
Should be obvious since this Mass was celebrated on the feast of Our Lady of Fabulous Denim.
March 5, 2008 at 2:16 am
Looks like an illicit blue chausible from Advent used doubly incorrectly in Lent. Is there such thing as double illiceity?
March 5, 2008 at 2:51 am
I thought it was celebrated on the optional memorial (as established by the national confernce of bishops) of “Our Lady, Foundation of all that is OK”….
I need a score card.
March 5, 2008 at 3:01 am
Dude! It’s, like, California, man!
Lighten up!
Sorry, I just haven’t quite recovered from my aversion of most things left coast, yet. But I am healing.
March 5, 2008 at 3:34 am
Less than 6 months there a decade ago scared me for life.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why our Greek Catholic parishes didn’t overflow…
March 5, 2008 at 4:05 am
Bishop, I recognize that aversion. Still, Half Dome is the closest place to heaven on earth.
SS, scared or scarred? Both, here. Did 4 years. Except for the physical place, Cali’s got nothing I am looking for.
March 5, 2008 at 4:13 am
Bishop, what jurisdiction are you under? Is MSJ its own jurisdiction? I saw something that looks like you are joining the APA. Is MSJ a jurisdiction or a religious order? Help.
March 5, 2008 at 5:09 am
“scared or scarred?”
Yes.
Even the physical lay of the land leaves me unimpressed… I am an ethnic Ohioan.
March 5, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Fr. J
no problem.
MSJ is a missionary society. APA.
Warning: Californians will not likely understand how anyone could prefer the climate of the upper midwest. Most Californians believe their state so beautiful and wonderful they can’t understand anyone NOT loving it all as they do.
March 5, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Oh, this is an easy question. That color is “blurple” — that ghastly combination of blur and purple used by some teenagers to paint their automobiles.
March 5, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Blurple? LOL. I’m going to use that one. I know a blurpleite or two.
March 5, 2008 at 5:52 pm
“Californians will not likely understand how anyone could prefer the climate of the upper midwest. Most Californians believe their state so beautiful and wonderful they can’t understand anyone NOT loving it all as they do.”
If it ended there, that would be well and good and fine… Most Hawaians, Texans and Floridians feel the same…
Its the (white liberals)who are so impressed with themselves and smug about it that got to me… Most of them could stand to be hit with a good snowball - and not on their next ski trip up to Vale.
March 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm
“I was in So Cal for a week, and I went to mass at two Franciscan missions. Both used, well, what looked like Pyrex glass pie plates and bowls for communion. After the creed, I turned to my husband and said, “Did she say what I think she said?” (referring to the woman behind us) He nodded yes. Upon referring to the Holy Spirit…”with the Father and Son, SHE is worshipped and glorified.”
If that was the worst you witnessed, you weren’t doing so badly JB!
I have noticed the folks dead set on the “Hagia Sophia” (female Holy Spirit) really can’t be talked to… and never seem to have a Marian dimension to their devotions - why is that? Why isn’t the fact the most perfect human person (something we are and can aspire to be like!) was a woman impress them a little more?
I have my theories!
Anywho - What is the deal with dalmatics? I have never seen the rubrics/canons/laws/ whichever on when they are to waer dalmatics in the Roman rite… and have NEVER seen one wearing one growing up… (Only stole over alb - usually no cincture…)
What is up with that?
March 5, 2008 at 6:16 pm
We have some dalmatics at the Basilica at ND and the diocese passes them from one deacon class to the next. But, for the most part no dalmatics in sight anywhere in a parish. Am guessing that pastors dont want to spend the money on something that looks too much like a chasuble and only get worn for a short time in the case of transitional deacons.
I have never ever seen a permanent deacon in a dalmatic! Of course, chasubles for concelebrants only came in sometime in the past 15 years. Before that, I only saw concelebrants in alb and stole. So, I’m guessing that in time the dalmatic will rise again.
As to the question, Why? I think it is a hold over of post conciliar anti-clericalism. I remember coffee table masses where the priest wore cut off jeans a tee, sandals and a stole. Yipes.
March 5, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Father J that is largely the impression that I get… And I have been happy to see concelebrants properly vesting and overlay stoles disappearing.
Though 10+ years ago the Jesuit community NEVER wore chasuables. They opted for just matching stoles of many colors - not of which were discernable as liturgical colors (think “indigenous art weaving” and you get a picture of what they wore…)
But my question remains, what is the law of the land on dalmatics?
It seems to be part anti-clerical, but it seems to be a special sort of “anti-(perm)deacon” too. Though I did notice in the photos from Hotlanta of the ordination of 20+ deacons they were all properly vested in dalmatic…
(BTW, I hate the term “perm deacon” as my bishop says “‘perm deacons’ - or as we call them ‘deacons’!”)
I smell a post coming on.
March 5, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Yes, I remember those Salvadoran stoles. Those things were everywhere in the mid-90’s. I got a few as ordination gifts. Luckily, I havent seen one in a long time.
March 6, 2008 at 7:39 pm
At least it is a Marian color. I used to have a theory that jeans were blue because the Blessed Mother looked after sartorially challenged seminarians; perhaps she also looks after similarly challenged priests.
I have never ever seen a permanent deacon in a dalmatic!
I must admit that the parish where I currently attend Mass does not use dalmatics at all. However, my hometown parish does, and on permanent deacons as well.
Daniel Muller, HCHS ‘82
March 6, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Daniel, is that Holy Cross High School ‘82 in San Antonio? If so, that is the the CSC brothers. I have been there and have met some of their students on a trip to the Oratory in Montreal. Great school and wonderful Holy Cross spirit. Am a CSC myself.
March 7, 2008 at 5:38 am
Yes, I knew you were, Father. And I suppose that that is Blessed Basil Moreau himself to the right of you.
The only Holy Cross Fathers that I ever met, though, were the ones at St. Edward’s University.
March 7, 2008 at 5:15 pm
DM writes: “At least it is a Marian color. I used to have a theory that jeans were blue because the Blessed Mother looked after sartorially challenged seminarians; perhaps she also looks after similarly challenged priests.”
Eh…
It is an approved color for Marian feasts in parts of Germany (Bavaria) and Spain and maybe a few other places… But this Liturgy took place in Lent…
I personally think it is a “do whatever you feel like” liturgical color… like the hand-woven Salvadoran stoles that seemed to be every color of the rainbow
March 7, 2008 at 5:23 pm
uhm “rainbow” may have been the operative term there, SS
March 7, 2008 at 5:57 pm
“uhm “rainbow” may have been the operative term there, SS “
You said it, not me.
March 12, 2008 at 3:05 am
For the life of me, I can’t understand why our Greek Catholic parishes didn’t overflow…
Won’t help you. The local Greek Catholics parish here has blue vestments as well.
March 12, 2008 at 3:27 am
Sister Katherine - I know you can’t help but jump at the chance to be a contrarian, but…
It isn’t the blue that is making me blue… it is +Brown who is making me blue. I have nothing against the color, I have some real problems with the violation of the rubrics here.
Of course the Byzantines have blue vestments. Their rubrics have three specifications for colors:
Light
Dark
Very Best
IOW, when we wear blue, we are allowed. Whey +Brown does, he isn’t.