Am I alone in noticing the remarkably low key and casual approach to yesterday’s visit of the PoC and the Pope? As a matter of fact, I would not be the least bit surprised if the majority of our readership was totally unaware that the Patriarch of Constantinople was in Rome yesterday for the 90th anniversary of his Roman alma mater (yes, the Patriarch like many Orthodox clergy studied in Rome!) and while there “stopped in” to see the Pope.
In my imagination it went something like this…
“Hey Ben!”“Bart! What are you doing in town?!?!”
“Goin’ to my reunion… how’s life?”
“Great… just working on this encyclical… was getting ready to take a Fanta break - want one?”
“Trying to cut back! Thanks though… Wanna hit the chapel?”
“Let’s do!”
I am not sure what to make of it - if it represents a significant thaw in relations or if it represents a friendship and closeness that is very casual anymore or a sign of something altogether different.
Either way, it used to be the case that such visits were talked about for months or weeks in advance with a lot of photo ops and plans made for joint celebration of prayer services…
This was all very downplayed - made the news a day or two before the event, and not much details except that they prayed together in Latin - the Ecumenical Patriarch initiating the Ave.
Very interesting.
More interesting still? “Bartholomew invited by the pope to participate in the synod of bishops“
David Bennett
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March 7, 2008 at 7:17 pm
“…was getting ready to take a Fresca break - want one?”
“I thought you were a Fanta man!”
March 7, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Link explains joke.
When I was in Germany, the Fanta *was* especially delicious. Haven’t noticed anything special about it here in the States though.
March 7, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Damn! will get that corrected - I want my imaginary dialogue between B16 & B2 to be as realistic as possible!
March 7, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I can’t believe I didn’t know about this. Not that I am super observant (just ask my wife), but I usually hear about events like this.
BUt, in some ways, in doesn’t mean much. I have noticed, among the Orthodox I hear on the net, a particular lack of interest in the PoC. I don’t know if it is a particular desire to be “anti-Popish” (not focus on or listen to the patriarchs like Catholics do with the Pope) or because the PoC is simply not seen as very relevant (he has a tiny diocese and he does some strange things. I heard he went on a rant about saving the environment, seemingly a non_orthodox thing to do).
March 7, 2008 at 8:24 pm
The PoC is in a situation where he is presiding over an increasingly shriking diocese in a country that treats him horribly.
The situation in Turkey today and the state of the Phanar (his mini-Vatican, if you like) ain’t good…
By the accounts of some who have visited, there are some small suburban Catholic boutique colleges in better repair and more impressive than the ghetto the Turkish gov has forced the Greeks into. It is sickening how the “secular gov” is treating them.
It has gotten to the point where the Patriarchate which decades ago secured property OUTSIDE of Istanbul (Switzerland & NYC, I believe) may well in our lifetime be moving.
But the “secular government of Turkey” has closed Patriarchal institutions and even made the repair of Patriarchal buildings an effort much burdened by read tape and difficulty. Yes the “secular moderates” are making it exceedingly difficult.
Understand that by Turkish law, B2 is is a citizen by birth of the nation - a foreign born man CANNOT hold this office.
Great way to treat a citizen who is widely respected the world over, isn’t it?
March 7, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Yes, I knew most of what you mentioned, but I was thinking that this meeting wasn’t big news because the Orthodox world possibly (I don’t really know) doesn’t put that much stock in what the PoC does.
(Regarding moving away from Turkey, this ‘last resort’ might turn out really well for the Patriarchate. They can select the new Patriarch’s from a wider group, etc)
March 7, 2008 at 9:07 pm
“(Regarding moving away from Turkey, this ‘last resort’ might turn out really well for the Patriarchate. They can select the new Patriarch’s from a wider group, etc)”
I have said this for years… The fact of the matter is that it has been a boon for the Patriarch of the Church of the East who has been in residence in Chicago, IL since the 40s.
Leaving the land of dhimmitude would at first be a great demoralizer for many… But honestly there could prove to be far more pros than cons.
March 7, 2008 at 9:26 pm
PoC wouldn’t be in such a bad situation if he didnt surrender 99% of his fromer territory to nationalist clerical circles in the past 200 years - thats is Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, and Romania.
(actually the first consession of Constatinople was when they recognized the Russian Orthodox Church after about 70(?) years after the Russians declared themselves independent.)
If the Ecumenical Patriarchate dose leave Constantinople, it would certainly be a major blow to the few Orthodox Christians left in Istanbul and Turkey…
March 7, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Actually (and this is just a whole world of useless speculation but, hey, I’ve got a minute) it could be interesting because, if the “flock” in Constanntinople did disappear, and the PoC moved to Switzerland, over whom would he be Patriarch? Is there an international group of Orthodox loyal directly to this patriarch, such as there is in the Antiochian Church, etc? What would his status be? Who would support him?
March 7, 2008 at 10:46 pm
The Greeks of the diaspora in North and South America (but not Africa) and Asia all look directly to him, as well as a diocese of Carpatho Russians here in America and a diocese of “Russian tradition” NOT under Moscow in Western Europe…
All told, the EP has a guestimated 3M faithful under him worldwide…
Not exactly as big as the Archdiocese of LA, I grant… but if he could talk each one of the 3M into donating $5 per paycheck via direct deposit into a Patriarchal account every two weeks… We could well be on the way to re-building the Hagia Sophia, bigger, better, and without those damndable minarets within a few years!
And maybe find a sleepy town in Switzerland to rename “New Constantinople?” Please, your All-Holiness, set up shop in a Protestant Canton!
March 8, 2008 at 12:54 am
OFF TOPIC:
I just had to share this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDndcxH-O4&feature=related
March 11, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Each year a Roman delegation visits the Phanar in Istanbul for the Feast of St. Andrew the First Called and a Greek delegation visits the Vatican for the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul. This exchange has been taking place since the great thaw of ‘64. Prayer in common and mutual participation in Liturgical services is routine. Of course, concelebration/intercommunion can’t take place, yet.
Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Protestant delegations are routinely invited to Catholic Synods, as they were invited to Vatican II.
Bartholomew is well known in Roman circles because of time as a student then lecturer at Pontifical Oriental.
The Greek situation in Istanbul is actually much better today than in the past. Phanariots must put up with the occasional stray bomb, riot or gun toting thug but at least they’ve been allowed to remain alive. Adherents of the Religion of Peace have had a nasty habit of killing infidel Greeks and their leaders in Istanbul in the past. Phanariots even painted the inside of St. George’s black in silent protest of all the murderizing they’ve had to endure at the hands of the most tolerant religion in the world. Compared to some of his predecessors, Bartholomew has it great!