Culture Change For The Legion of Christ?
A Zenit article with some of my comments below.
In a private audience with Benedict XVI, the general director of the Legionaries of Christ renewed the congregation’s loyalty to the Pope at the start of a new stage in its history, following the Jan. 30 death of the founder.
The Pope received in audience Legionary of Christ Father Álvaro Corcuera on Saturday.
According to the congregation, in the meeting the general director wanted to assure the Holy Father of the group’s “unconditional loyalty to the Pope” in what he called a “new stage in their history.”
Father Marcial Maciel, the founder of the congregation and the apostolic movement Regnum Christi, which is associated with the Legion of Christ, died Jan. 30 at age 87.
According to the Regnum Christi Web page, “The Holy Father, with fatherly kindness, assured Father Corcuera that he continues closely accompanying the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi with his prayers. He then granted all of its members his apostolic blessing, especially the thousands of young people and families who will participate in evangelization missions across the world during Holy Week.” (Zenit)
H/T: American Papist
10 years ago if you would have asked me about the Legion of Christ, I would have told you I had favorable opinions about them - they were growing, they were loyal, they were building seminaries, they had ordinations in one sitting more than some orders or diocese have in a decade.
Now, I am not so excited.
Their apostolate - from everything I can witness and gather sometimes seems to be mostly geared toward self-promotion, self-defense and growth. I wanted to believe its founder Fr. Marcial Macielwas the next St. Ignatius and these were the new (old style) Jesuits. 900 priests, almost 3000 seminarians in 50 years… They were the poster boys for loyalty to the Holy Father and a type of post-conciliar orthodoxy. They were traditional if not traditionalists. Now that image has been tarnished and those hopes have proven to be somewhat premature.
My first encounter with them was a dozen+ years ago when I was still in high school I had my first contact with the Legionaries of Christ. A family affiliated with their lay wing, Regnum Christi, spotted me after Mass one Sunday when my grandmother and I were temporarily attending the very closest parish to her home (she had been ill, it was blocks away). The parish enjoyed a reputation for being mighty traditional - the Pauline Mass ad orientum, parts in Latin and Gregorian Chant as well as kneeling for communion held sway there.
The family that approached me was pleasant and affable - fiercely loyal to the Magisterium and dedicated to the Rosary, Eucharistic Adoration and (at the time) had 5 or 6 small children. (I can’t recall exactly how many they had at the time - more have been added, and they never all stood still long enough to count!)
I did not really recognize a recruitment pattern at the time, but invitations were extended to me and other single young men to family picnics they had at the time. Legion priests were frequent guests in their home, and at picnics as often as not they would be there to celebrate Mass and talk up the Legion.
At the time I was rather impressed - the numbers they had were always bandied about as a demonstration they were a success - 3,500+ men in formation, 600+ priests already ordained. The recruitment video I was mailed showed footage of the year they ordained 60 at once in Saint Peter’s. That looks impressive to someone who grew up being told no one was getting ordained and we would run out of priests in a few years.
Back then, one of their recruiters had been given my phone number and I was getting weekly calls. (This was when I was a senior.) At one point, I pointed out that I am Greek Catholic, and if I sought a vocation it would be to my church. They were undeterred. My mother, rather angry with them made it clear that they could send all the literature they wanted, but the constant calling was not welcome and they were not to call again. By the third time, they got the message.
12 years ago I had already begun to hear a lot of things I had dismissed about their styles of formation and piety. A well-known priest who publishes a monthly magazine had been to their seminary and explained that they timed the showers for guys in the seminary, and they monitored to make sure that seminarians do not sleep on their stomach at night. (Maybe that is what puts me off - I am a stomach sleeper, always have been, always will be!)
To date, I have not heard a lot of good things about LC/RC working with other truly orthodox groups in what would be considered common cause. One case that comes to mind is what I have heard from first hand from folks who live in communities where both the LC and FSSP operate - the animosity has been palpable up to and including the Legion demanding that students of its schools NOT serve at FSSP parishes as acolytes. Why? More curiously, how would they keep track and know?
It does bear pointing out that a good deal of what the LC does is in Spanish speaking countries, and I do not speak Spanish well enough to read about them in Spanish. What they are doing in those communities, I cannot say.
There is nothing that would give me greater joy than to find out that these accusations are just a part of the trial that saints endure. Certainly others were slandered. But as much as I would love to believe that, I simply cannot make that leap of faith with any sort of intellectual integrity.
In the next 20 years the LC could possibly ordain 3000 priests given the number studying for the priesthood that they have now. I really don’t expect that - 12/13 years ago they had 2500 seminarians - maybe 10% of that number has been ordained priests.
I guess the question will then become, what is the fruit of all this? The image has been significantly tarnished, and their leader is gone. Will their be a change in recruitment culture? Will some of the secrecy that was prevalent among them before disappear?
What are your impressions?
David Bennett
Jennifer
asimplesinner
Fr. J.
Chad Toney
Jorge Flores
Jonathan B
carmelbennett
nicenehobbit
Jason S
jaybird68
papaz
March 26, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Along with me, members of my family and very close friends have had very negative experiences with Legion and RC. I’m waiting to see the end fruit, now that the founder has died. Will we ever find the truth, knowing they have a private vow like this? http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=55364
March 27, 2008 at 12:39 am
I tend to hear more bad than good these days…
March 27, 2008 at 8:07 am
I am the RC member from Poland. The history of LC/RC in Poland is much shorter. When I was joining RC I knew much of the bad things told about LC. In fact I can understand really well your disappointment with the ‘recruiting’ style - on the first public meeting with LC I had the impression of being on Amway party.
But… I’ve made my decision to join RC because of the reasons that are deep under this external image created by LC/RC itself or the others. This are (among others): real devotion and serious way of personal spiritual development.
I cannot say that I like everything about RC, but this is just human community. It is faulty by it’s nature. But the reason for us, who dedicate some of our time to cooperate with RC, and really benefit of the membership in RC, is the love of God. Not the human relationships but God himself.
I have a friend who has spent 10yrs in LC seminary. He decided to quit because he discovered he has different vocation than being a priest. We use to talk about these ’secrecy’ and ’special vows’… It is good to hear it from the source. It helps to understand that the reason behind many LC regulations is just the dignity of the person. Not particularly LC or RC member.
I am not trying to say that bad things don’t happen. I am just trying to say that it is worth to discover the real motivation.
Bests
Greg
March 27, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Greg i am interested in finding out about why they go through so many seminarians and in turn ordain so few. If 25% of the 2500-3000 seminarians they had 12 years ago made it through the program they have double the priests they have today… And that is provided that they did not take on any new members in those dozen years.
It is very odd to me that they can have such a large seminarian population for so long - and they do love the photos of the young guys in their cassocks out on the lawn and showing them off a bit…
But they go years without an ordination, sometimes making men who have completed their training wait a year or two or three so that they can stage a grand mass-ordination Mass.
That is very odd to me.
I would like to believe that there can be good fruit there. I am hoping there will be a major culture change.
March 27, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Dear Simple Sinner,
My brother has been a Regnum Christi member for 10 years. He loves it, because he can focus his spiritual and charitable energies into a worthwhile, focused and organized Catholic endevor. The Legionaires have some high school/seminaries which are included in the in seminary numbers. The Legion has a focused spiritual prayer system with yearly retreats and monthly spiritual direction from a LC priest. Their spirituality is typically pulled from the Spiritual Exercises of St. Igantius and St. Francis DeSales and other classic Catholic sources. As of late they seem to be ordaining 50 priest a year followed by 50 transitional deacons the next year, for an average of 25 ordinations a year. The New York Province of Jesuits has about 700 members a hundred more members than the entire L’s of C. Last year in the the New York Province a total were two Jesuit priests were ordained.
JMJ
Joe
March 28, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Hi Simplesinner,
I have known the Legionaries for over 10 years and can say from the bottom of my heart and with all openess that by knowing them I have come to know and love Christ more. They are a great example of self-giving and Christlike charity to me and their love for the Eucharist, the Mass and the Church is truly inspiring. They are not perfect people by any means and the organization is run by normal, imperfect people as well. I guess the Holy Spirit is used to working with imperfection by now!
There is really nothing I can say to convince you about the goodness of the Legion or Regnum Christi but I will keep your quest in my prayers…
God bless,
Peg
March 28, 2008 at 2:01 pm
The Legion is a manipulative cult. Most of the members are deceived into thinking they are a legitimate form of religious life, but the excessive control and “thought reform” techniques are straight out of a cult handbook.
Fortunately the Holy Father has told them they can no longer use the private vows and I am optimistic that further reforms are forthcoming. The founder started the group to surround himself with young boys. The Church does not need a group founded by such a twisted person who abuses the sincerity of the members withall sorts of twisted rules and manipulation - which of course they deny.
The members still ‘think’ Maciel was a saint and that his critics ‘hate the Church’
I’m so glad I’m out, and yes, I am very disappointed that they are not anything like the wonderful, artificial image they project.
March 28, 2008 at 4:55 pm
See this is what always befuddles me…. How can it be that folks are so radically divided on this one?
The people who love them - really love them - never come across as “brainwashed” or “sheeple”…
On the other hand people with some VERY NEGATIVE asessments aren’t just garden variety dissidents.
March 28, 2008 at 6:22 pm
asimplesinner,
Despite the recent reforms which in practice disallowed any negative comments about the Legion (the wording of the vow allowed for criticism), it is still ingrained in an LC/RC to never say anything negative about the Legion of Christ, and to rat out on anyone who does. Try as you might, you won’t hear anyone say anything harsher than “We’re all imperfect”. Usually someone comes along to tell you that ALL the priests they’ve ever known in LC/RC are wonderful human beings, completely devoted to the Church yada yada. They aren’t allowed to tell you otherwise.
My experiences have all been negative. I first heard about them when Challenge began to recruit in my parish 2 1/2 years ago. They were very hostile about meeting diocesan requirements for interacting with children, and very reluctant to put “Regnum Christi” on their literature. I researched them and began warning parishioners about their reputation by suggesting that people research the group thoroughly before getting involved. For this, the usual false innuendo was spread about me; watch for that if you speak up! And then there are the lawsuits: guess what happened to exlegionaries.com? It wasn’t that the posts were lies.
It comes down to: do you believe the victims of Maciel’s abuse, or do you believe the Legion? If Maciel really did sexually abuse those boys, then the LC has a lot to answer to. That they continue to imply that MM will be exonerated “like Padre Pio” gives credence to the “cultlike” accusations. Just ask around and I bet you will find lots of people who were burned by the LC/RC; many are still sound Catholics. Unfortunately, many have had their faith in the Church destroyed as a result of the Legion’s mistreatment; since they went in as devout, orthodox Catholics, it’s especially tragic that the LC pushed them away from the Church.
March 28, 2008 at 8:05 pm
How do you reconcile two opposite experiences? I was in very heavily in RC for 12 years. While I was in it, I could say nothing but good about it but once I left and was free of its influence I began to see things entirely different. It was definitely a mixed bag. It was easy to overlook the negative because I was so busy with apostolate and there was always this expectation that things would improve since this was a founding age. I did not have time to reflect on my life and see how my family life was being negatively affected by the movement. I also spent much time with Legionary priests and was continually being affirmed by them for all the great work I was doing for them. I was also receiving my spiritual direction from a Legionary who would put things in the “proper” perspective. In spite of seeing much turnover in the heads apostolate and two Legionaries leave along with a number of consecrated and brothers I never questioned anything. It was difficult to have a grasp on the amount of people that left because of the continual reassignments and changes in leadership.
The Legion has been very successful because they use a lot of very effective human techniques in identifying leaders, recruiting and motivating people. These are many of the same skill you will find with any successful person. When one begins to rely on the human element more than God, individuals become a means rather than the end. This happens very easily in LC/RC because there is so much pressure for results. I filled out many reports about the activities in the area and what our goals were. Numbers are very easy to track but they did not capture what is going on in the soul. It is possible to have a veneer of good when the center is rotten. The greater ones ability and skill to move people the greater ability there is to do damage and I have saw and experienced a lot of damage in an number friends I recruited to the movement.
So how do you see good happening? I’ve heard of people have great conversions at condemned apparitions. There have been many heretical sects that flourished before they died. Where God is present even if the situation is erroneous his grace can still prevail Does this mean that most Legionaries and consecrated are evil? I believe that most are very good and act with sincerity. Unfortunately, they have been misguided by indoctrination into the “methodology of the movement” which blinds them to the fact that they are working with souls. If a person is asked to do something which is not in their own best interest then they are being used. There was almost no discernment on whether a person should or should not do an apostolate but rather were they available and willing.
The only hope for reform is that they have recruited many very solidly Catholics who might be able to turn things around. Reform will be difficult because discernment and self criticism have not been the strong suit of the order. Most religious communities die shortly after foundation and those that do make it last only a few hundred years. In the end it is about Christ who is for all times. He is our savior and no one else.
March 29, 2008 at 9:59 am
From Pat Buchanan’s latest Human Events article:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25749
“Longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer once wrote that all great movements eventually become a business, then degenerate into a racket.”
Will the LC become the first to do this in reverse? They certainly have the racket/business part down. Based on my experiences, I doubt they will go from con-men to Christ.
April 2, 2008 at 5:07 pm
odd that MM died nearly right after the pope abolished the “vows” legionaries took to not speak ill of him, and within the year of being removed from his post by the vatican. that is to say: how odd is it that as soon as legionaries could speak out (even anonymously) or to each other about “Nuestro Padre”, he up and keels over.
odd too that we’ve heard nothing of cotija, mexico burying its favorite son, with all of the pomp and circumstance that would have surrounded the death of a founder whose lay (and religious) congregation(s) included such august members as Marta Sahagún de Fox, Jose Maria Aznar, as well as members of the Garza Medinas, the Slim Helus, and the Cisneros. these aren’t people who “die” and fall down the memory hole, never to be heard of again.
odd how multiple stories were initially released about his place of death and time; how we know almost nothing about what he died from/of; who was with him when he died; what were the circumstances of the same. this about a man who was being heralded as the neo-Black Pope of the Church, and who hob-knobbed with princes and prelates and churchmen of all ranks.
all very, very odd…
April 3, 2008 at 5:43 pm
http://exlcblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/according-the-legion-priests-never.html
Looking at this, I wonder how many more ex-Legionaries are still counted among their 700 priests. Paul Lennon, whom they sued last fall? Or the ex-LC they sued in Spain? Juan Vaca? Jose Barba? Bishop Farrell?
April 3, 2008 at 7:58 pm
You know the numbers are hard to tell exactly… They are self-reporting and it isn’t clear how they are updated.
A gent I knew of who was with them at a seminary in Spain describes an experience that was oddly Potemkin-Village-like wherein there was some official doings of some sort in Rome where they brought in busloads of apple-cheeked seminarians from other seminaries to be visible at the Roman seminary for visitors attending some function or another…
At first it was not clear to this former serminarian of a Spanish seminary what they were there to do - where they going to help prepare the meals, or act as waiters or assist in setting the place up for this reception? - whatever it was - where a number of newsly-consecrated bishops would be in attendence?
As it turns out, NO, they were not there to be of assistence, they were there to augment the number of seminarians visible to the visitors and were pretty much there to be seen. Effectively they were there to make an already full seminary look even fuller and more impressive still. When half the seminaries of Rome were half empty, an army of young men in cassocks in a newly built seminary commanded a great deal of attention.
This seemed to play into a lot of what I have seen and experienced with LC recrutiment literature and videos - showing massive mass-ordination Masses and photographs of very full seminarians (with their hair all parted the same way, “6-foot-two-and-eyes-of-blue”) seemed to be meant to demonstrate that they were a powerhouse, they were the future, and the pressure I heard from folks with Regnum Christi to go on a retreat at the seminary (never mind I am Greek Catholic and that goes against the grain of canon law to recruit Eastern Catholics like that) was always to the effect “These guys are where it is at, that is the future, there will be 5000+ priests by the death of the founder, Nuestra Padre, join them while the founder is still alive and you will one day be designated a co-founder!”
Where I grew up the vocations crisis - for a number of reasons - was rather real. Young pious men I knew were screened out of the seminary application process and for years on end the diocese (which no under a new bishop has 25+ men) would only have two or three in at a time… Vocations seemed to be discouraged and the bishop (God rest his soul) of the time seemed rather fond of getting modern religous sisters to be appointed “Pastoral administrators” of parishes and they would distribute communion at weekday and Sunday “Communion services” and vest in albs and preach… It was pretty bad.
People who were disaffected by such silliness were the prime demagraphic target, I believe for recruitment. The LC and RC members would come into places like that and make it sound like they were the only show going in town and if you wanted to escape that the only real way to be a Catholic and the only real vocations to be had was with them… And it was appealing to some of us at the time in those darker hours - here our dioceses had few or no seminarians, and they had photograph after photograph in the recruitment materials of seminaries where young men were practically hanging out the window. Throw in some photos of the ordination Mass where 60 had been ordained by the Pope (and they held up ordinations for years to get to that point of having so many!) and you can see what a convincing argument it was.
For all the pious, high-minded young men in the circles in which I traveled when I was in my late teens who went into LC seminaries, 15 years on, NONE of them were ordained. What does that say about the recruitment process? The official response was always “well seminary is a time for discernment” but after 50ish years they haven’t been able to screen applicants to the point where even 50% get ordained? I don’t believe that it is because they can’t, I believe it is because they don’t want to - having a lot of seminarians is a big part of their appeal… They know full well a majority of them will NEVER make it to ordination.
As to the stories that get told by ex-Legionaires - this is indeed very bothersome. I mean people come and go and are disaffected by it everywhere you go… But generally not universally so. Why are so many ex-LCs so angry, disaffected and seeming to be hurt? When I left seminary there was no bitterness and I remained in touch with several of my classmates. As many of them as not seem to be cut off altogether with no follow up, no later contact, and often a number of them seem to be bitter and angry to the point of leaving the practice of the Faith altogether for a time if not forever. What is happening?
April 4, 2008 at 2:15 pm
asimplesinner,
I’ve encountered several ex-members and have noticed that the women seem to keep their faith more often than the men, even the women who had the usual “3gf nervous breakdown”. I don’t know why. Juan Vaca seems to be an exception, but most of the men are really struggling with the Catholic faith, or any faith in God at all.
Did your friends leave the seminary? I know that LC’s spend a long time in seminary so they might still be in after 15 years, but there is also a huge turnover rate. Ex-members tell me that the LC recruits heavily, then discerns who should be in the Legion-kind of backward, and not at all what I’d like for my son who thinks he might have a vocation.
April 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I did not keep track of the folks I knew of who went into the Legion - the seminary I went to was diocesan - some left, some got ordained…
“Ex-members tell me that the LC recruits heavily, then discerns who should be in the Legion-kind of backward, and not at all what I’d like for my son who thinks he might have a vocation.”
I am left to wonder about some of the wisdome of “getting em all in and then sorting it out” which seems to be - we are told - sort of the MO.
April 6, 2008 at 11:47 am
Regnum Christi saved my faith, and it saddens me to see so much negativity about it. For a while now, ever since I stumbled upon all of the accusations that have come out against LC/RC, I have scrutinized everything I do with LC/RC and questioned whether or not it is legitimate. Despite all of the detractors out there, and I am sure they are legitimate in their opinions as well, I cannot seem to find that degree of falsity in LC/RC. I was struggling with my faith when I went on my first RC sponsored retreat, and the contemplativeness and profundity of it turned my faith around, and I can say with a great degree of certainty that I would not be a Christian, much less a Catholic, if it were not for that retreat and subsequent spiritual direction by an LC. When I formally joined RC I was well aware of many of the accusations against it and the Legion. Still, since I had only positive experiences, since this organization had done so much for my faith, I found nothing wrong with joining.
That aside, I am sorry that so many have negative experiences. I would like to say, however, that not all RC members are brain-washed or blind to the problems with the Legion. I fully recognize that these exist and some of these claims have legitimacy. Yet, those who would detract from LC/RC cannot blame Catholics like myself whose faith has been enriched by the good in RC and the depth of faith found in many LC priests.
Many of my best friends were met through RC, some of them have been co-workers. At times we do, in fact, criticize LC/RC for many things. However, if our criticisms are accurate, the only way to make an already (in my opinion) great organization better is to build up, not break down.
April 6, 2008 at 6:03 pm
From a former member:
“I wanted to comment on the conclusions that I drew from the “signs” of God’s favor(apparent good fruit) that seemed to be present in RC. If God seemed to be blessing something that we did in RC, for example, a team resolution, a Pure Fashion Show, the fruits of a Familia study, a K4J camp, etc…, I automatically assumed that it was a “sign” that he was totally in favor of RC/LC/MM. This assumption was definitely encouraged by the LC. We were constantly led to believe that all of the good fruit were signs of God’s favor for the Legion. I see now that God was blessing our efforts in spite of the mixed agendas of RC/LC/MM not because of them. He was meeting us in our efforts to serve Him and trying to draw us closer to Him and His ways and not necessarily RC. Similar to the first reading from last week when we read about David defeating Goliath. At first it seemed to King Saul that God was blessing his kingship when, in fact, he was preparing for David to become king. Saul misread the “signs.” Another example is the way that God seems to bless other Christian denominations in their efforts to serve him. They may assume because of those “signs”(the good fruit) that God is totally in favor of the whole organization and that they corner the market on salvation.
I think God will bless anything that we do that is good, true and beautiful but we have to be careful not to jump to the wrong conclusions when he does.”
As John said earlier: “people have had great conversions at condemned apparitions. There have been many heretical sects that have flourished before they died. Where God is present even if the situation is erroneous His grace can still prevail.”
I believe like John that 99% of the people involved are good people with great intentions. I believe that God wants us to “hate what is evil but hold fast to what is good.” I believe He has allowed this in the Church at this time for many reasons; one of which is that the good that the LC/RC are doing is spurring us on to be more evangelical with our Faith. Similar to the Protestant sects. We can use the good we have received, leave the evil behind and work directly for the benefit of our families, work places, parishes, etc… We can use their apostolic initiatives to benefit ALL people and not only members or potential members of their cult. Another reason, I believe, is so that we can learn important lessons about true discernment, charity, humility, etc… When His purpose for allowing this is accomplished He will deal with all of the evil. I don’t believe that the LC/RC movement will last but that He will use all of the good in a better and purer way for the Church.
April 8, 2008 at 12:55 pm
One fact remains that the Legion does play the numbers game at the highest level which leads me to believe that there is more wrong the leadership than first meets the eye. I was in Rome for the 60th anniversary of Neustro Padre ordination to the priesthood. There where 59 ordinations to the priesthood in St Paul outside the wall. Who knows what happened with #60. I think it was a message from God. One of the priest being ordained was a friend who I recruited to RC . After his ordination my wife asked him if he could hear her confession. He had to decline the offer because he could not be given faculties to hear confession because he still had not completed his studies. My understanding was that there were a number of other priest in the same situation who where being ordained prior to completion of their studies. Maybe if they where given the full time to reflect the number of ordinations would have been even lower
At the time of the ordinations I did not think much more about it. But then after leaving and reflecting more I realized they were playing the numbers games with these sacred ordination to God’s service. I do not believe that this should be something to play around with to please the founder and make a headlines. I think that it was scandalous to trivialize these mens ordination by pulling these kinds of marketing stunts. God does not operate this way. I believe is a very serious and concrete example of how the Legion operates. The individual is secondary and exists solely for the success of the movement. People become objects and thus a means for furthering their goals.