Per Christum

When I was exploring Roman Catholicism, I would tend to only seek witnesses who were like myself…former Evangelicals. Fortunately, I’ve gotten over that. We converts have to be really careful. We tend to bring a lot of theological baggage with us that can unwittingly and innocently put us in the position where we’re spouting heresy.

I was born again in the Protestant sense when I was 7 years old. I’ve studied the faith and the Bible since then, so I thought I had a pretty good handle on what it meant to be a Christian. When I discovered sacraments, liturgy and the saints in the Charismatic Episcopal Church, I guess I thought I would just add them to the mix of what I already knew to be true, and, presto, I’d be a Roman Catholic, ready to teach catechism and theology. In fact, I sometimes resented going through RCIA, because I thought I knew everything. Consequently, I didn’t always do my catechism readings, because I didn’t think I needed it. I KNEW the Bible.

Ha ha. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Recently, this was illustrated to me when I found myself dialoguing with a couple of well-known Calvinists (Steve Camp and James White). I concluded, after reading and hearing what they believed, that, even if I remained a Protestant, I would have never bought into Calvinism. Their idea of total depravity seemed so hopeless and fatalistic.

On the topic of total depravity, Wikipedia states:

The doctrine interprets the Bible as teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin and, apart from the grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God or choose to accept salvation as it is freely offered.

Total depravity is the fallen state of man as a result of original sin . The doctrine of total depravity teaches that people are by nature not inclined to love God with their whole heart, mind, or strength, as he requires, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God. Even religion and philanthropy are destructive to the extent that these originate from a human imagination, passions, and will.

In reformed theology, God must predestine individuals into salvation since man is incapable of choosing God.

I thought, I don’t completely believe that? But what DO I believe? More importantly, what does the Catholic Church teach on this subject of sin?

What I found is that the Catholic position places us in such a more hopeful and, dare I say, “royal” position. I highly recommend a current teaching, available via podcast, from Mark Shea at Catholic Exchange, called, “Concupiscence, Sin and the Mercy of God.”

He reminds us of the Mel Gibson incident, when Gibson was yelling anti-Semitic slurs while he was smashed off his rocker. Many said, “I THOUGHT he was a good guy. I guess not,” implying that this drunken man was the TRUE self. This, my friends, is classic Calvinism.

Goodness is the mask. Corruption is one’s true nature. When we took the mask off Gibson, and he was allowed to be his uninhibited self, we got the real picture.

But is that the way WE want to be judged? When we are at our worst? I don’t. Surely God doesn’t look at us this way. This view says the sinner is the REAL man. The penitent is just “faking it.” This view identifies sin with nature. And it leaves two choices: 1) nature is sinful and bad (Calvinism’s total depravity) OR 2) sin is natural, i.e. if it feels good, do it (leading to war, promiscuity, and a host of other evils).

Shea summarizes it this way.

For a baptized Christian: Sin is normal, but it is NEVER natural. Sin does not constitute who we are. It destroys who we are. It makes us anonymous. Sin is a BETRAYAL of who we are. It is NOT a revelation of who we are. It is only when the human person takes his place as the redeemed creature God made him to be that we begin to see his face and know his name. As a Christian, we have the assurance that man is a creature who has undergone death and resurrection and now sits at the right hand of the Father. If you want to know what a human being TRULY is, look at him. Those members of his body on earth who are undergoing the process of divinization are still capable of sinning and betraying the truth of who they really are.

Do you see how different a view this is? My sin is not ME.

And why is this? Because in Catholic theology, the sacraments are so important and powerful…and real and effective.

I think when I was in the CEC, before I became Catholic, I thought baptism was sort of a replacement of the “born again” experience. Jesus died for my sins. I accepted him as Saviour, and I was going to heaven. Instead of the sinner’s prayer, my baptism effected this work. I don’t know if that’s what I was TAUGHT, per se, but in reflection, it’s what I believed.

But baptism is MUCH more than that. Baptism REMOVES!!!! original sin. It places me in a fully restored relationship with God. Can you believe that? My true self loves God and wants to be with him. I suffer the effects of sin, and I DO sin, but that’s a betrayal of who I really am.

This idea certainly helped me in my last visit to the confession box. My sin separates me from God, because he is holy. When I receive the sacrament of reconciliation, I am restored again to that right relationship. And that’s the way it felt. I felt like the prodigal who had come home again..where I belonged.

When you think about the ramifications of the removal of original sin, believing the doctrines about Mary (who at the moment of her conception was preserved from original sin by her son, Jesus) aren’t so implausible. Many are offended by her exalted position, but she is actually a witness to what we are all called to. So are the saints. They’re incredible.

But we’re all called to be saints. The only reason we’re not is because we don’t want to be. Yes, concupiscence is a big thing, certainly, but saintlihood is possible.

There’s so much more, but this post is already too long.

Thoughts? Questions? Corrections from those who know better than I?

For those following the recent events in the Charismatic Episcopal Church, the leaders of the CEC at the recent Patriarch’s Council meeting have issued a statement. Many faithful CEC laity and clergy have been asking for this statement for some time. Whether it says what many of these folks want to hear will remain to be seen.

Please check out the Patriarch’s Council Statement (this is a .pdf file that cannot be edited and copied)

To join in on the discussion on this subject, please check out the topic at our forum Patriarch’s Council Statement Discussion.

**Prayer Request Alert: David Z. was informed privately that Betty Adler, wife of CEC patriarch Randolph Adler, is in the hospital with only about 35% of her heart working. Please keep her and the Adler/Tanner family in your prayers. Prayer is urgently needed.**

I posted this over on our forum, and I thought I could post it here to solicit responses as well. Now before you read the title and think I have become opposed to any charismatic experiences, realize that I do consider myself charismatic, in a limited sense (at least limited from the perspective of most non-Catholic Charismatics I am sure). I am not opposed to the stirrings of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and understand that I believe that the Holy Spirit does work in the Church and in the hearts of believers today. I have even had experiences I consider “charismatic.”

I was reading a book the other day called The Pentecostal Movement in the Catholic Church by Edward O’Connor, CSC (please share opinions on this book if you have read it). He is a charismatic Catholic, supportive of the movement, *but* is also a loyal Catholic, so he lists some dangers that *may* result from Catholics that become involved in the charismatic movement, and honestly, these are some of the same complaints I see folks having about the Charismatic Episcopal Church on our forum. Also, these are dangers that are outright taken for granted in most non-liturgical charismatic churches, and the main reason why I am suspicious of purely charismatic churches. Let me know what you think about these dangers:

1. Illuminism - i.e. folks believe God is telling them something unique that nobody else knows. There is a need to feel “special” and if God isn’t telling you something unique or even mildly provocative, your credibility as a leader/follower is called into question. In my parents Sunday school class when I was in college, there were about 5 people who always said “God told me to…” whether it was which car to buy or even to get up in the morning. Not only does this destroy the free will God created us with, but how can you argue with “God told me…”??

2. Paraclericalism - a downplaying of the role of clergy, or even suggesting there is no need for the Church hierarchy. I have seen this attitude even among charismatic clergy! There is such an emphasis on the experience of the individual, that any kind of formality or hierarchy is looked down upon. The result for some Catholics is to downplay the role of the Holy Spirit acting in the Church, because the Church and her rules seem too “formal,” and the hierarchy too “stifling.” This leads some charismatic Catholics to become cafeteria Catholics, believing only in what gets them spiritually “excited.”

3. Charismania - attributing excessive significance to the charisms while downplaying other spiritual acts. I have seen this, not so much firsthand, but from the testimony of others. Speaking in tongues or prophecy become the litmus tests for true spirituality, while feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc, are downplayed or even ignored. In some churches, the more outrageous the “charismatic” event, the more the Holy Spirit is deemed present. Unfortunately, this means the Holy Spirit is never allowed to work in a dignified and quiet manner.

4. Neglect of Traditional Spirituality - i.e. past spiritual experiences are downplayed or not even studied because it is all about what “I” am experiencing “now.” This can also be seen when the traditional liturgy is “suspended” when the Spirit leads to be replaced by often questionable pet projects of the pastor. There is also a hostility to formality, and to suggest that something should be done a proper way (such as clerical dress or properly executing an essential part of the liturgy) is viewed suspiciously.

5. Tyranny of the Prophetic - This isn’t Fr. O’Connor’s, but is a term used by a good friend of mine from my seminary days. This means that the prophetic, in this case referring to the illuminism mentioned above, can trump anything. In other words, if there is an objection to what the pastor is doing, the pastor just reminds the objectors that he talked to Jesus and “God told him…” and that settles it. 2000 years of Tradition is forced submit to the private revelation of one pastor.

6. Cult of Personality - I have to add this after reading the comments to the post. One commenter makes a good point in that in some charismatic churches, and even charismatic movements, a cult of personality can develop around the pastor or leader. Despite a general suspicion of traditional hierarchy and church order among some charismatics, the pastor, who has been given special prophetic knowledge, is often viewed idealistically. The result is that he can do whatever he wants without discipline or question, including taking huge sums of money from the congregation. Why? Well it goes back to number 5 above. He has spoken with God. That settles it!

Now, these 6 things are not reasons to discard the charismatic movement in the Catholic Church, just a kind of “head’s up.” They are, I think, a good critique of charismatic experiences outside a historical Church. I mention in my article I Can’t Be Charismatic…I’m Catholic that personal charismatic experiences must submit to the Teaching of Christ’s Church, where the Holy Spirit objectively operates. And while renewal movements often spiritually enliven the Church at times when she needs renewal, all renewal must be subject to the Teachings of Christ in His Church. The Holy Spirit operating in the individual will not contradict the Holy Spirit operating in Christ’s Church.

What do you all think?

Charismatic Episcopal Church Archbishop Randolph Sly has resigned from the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church, and will leave his Cathedral (The Cathedral Church of the Transfiguration) in Potomac Falls, Virginia in the next few months. He has stated he will become Catholic. This move is a bit of a shock to those following the recent crisis in the CEC, but others have expected it for some time. Whether Bp. Sly will eventually be allowed to be ordained in the Catholic Church is up to his local bishop.

Sly’s decision follows the highly-discussed Patriarch’s Council Meeting in the Charismatic Episcopal Church that just ended, a meeting where selected CEC leaders were expected to discuss certain issues and concerns that have been raised on this blog and our forums (among other places).

There is no word as to whether any of Sly’s clergy or laity will follow him into the Catholic Church, nor is there information available about the future actions of other CEC bishops following the meeting. However, in situations like this, one can expect some clergy and laity to follow the path of their bishop, even if shortly he will no longer be a CEC bishop, but a Catholic layperson. There are suggestions that chunks of his parish have already gone either East or West, and that some of the cathedral leadership are leaving or have left for Rome or Constantinople as well.

I have only become deeply familiar with the Charismatic Episcopal Church in the last few months, a result of a rather innocuous post I made on June 16, 2006, “What’s Up in the Charismatic Episcopal Church?” The resulting 200+ comments set a record for most comments ever on this blog, and the conversation was taken over to our forum, and over 200,000 visits later, the conversations are still continuing. Part of this is because we, by accident, became virtually the only place folks in the ICCEC could openly discuss these matters. Some of the CEC leadership have attacked our blog and forum, accusing us of encouraging attacks on the CEC. However, we have merely provided a place where curious, hurt, and wounded people can come and ask honest questions and get some honest answers about what is going on in their own church. As I have said before, we welcome more transparency on the part of CEC leadership, and our forums would shut down from lack of use in a few days if this transparency were to come about.

I know the dust is still settling from all of this, and people on all sides are angry and hurt at many CEC leaders, including Bp. Sly. I just pray that all involved in this controversy, and those formerly involved, do the right thing and confess and make amends if they have wronged anyone in these controversies. We are all called to this, but in tough times, this is especially important.

Welcome to the Catholic Church Bp. Sly, and God bless you and may we be enriched by your evangelical and charismatic roots. For those who are staying in the CEC, and for all CEC leaders, may God bless all of you as well.

[Note: I received this information from reliable sources. If anything is inaccurate, please contact me. This is all public knowledge by the way.]

The last post I made on the Charismatic Episcopal Church, What’s Up With the Charismatic Episcopal Church?, has received a lot of visits and insightful comments. Apparently this blog is one of the few sources of information about what is actually happening inside the Charismatic Episcopal Church. I didn’t intend for that post to develop into a source of news on the CEC, but I am glad that those who are looking for news can find it here. I do not want the comments to develop into a bashing session, and so far on the other post they have been respectful. I am honestly curious about the future of the CEC, a church I once considered joining, and do not wish the demise of any church.

There was, at the time of the original post, an official statement regarding recent developments in the CEC on the ICCEC website. This was removed soon after this post.

***Discussion about issues surrounding the Charismatic Episcopal Church have moved over to our forum. Discussion on this matter is continuing, so please stop over for more information.***

I just found out that David Zampino has a blog. David Zampino is a former CEC priest who is now Catholic. I knew of David through his Amazon.com’s book reviews. He and I often reviewed many of the same books, and we were known to each other through Amazon’s friends and favorites program. I was delighted to find out that David became Catholic in February 2005, six months after my confirmation. He has posted some interesting information about the future of the Charismatic Episcopal Church, and the issues surrounding the Great Lakes Diocese, Bishop Fick, and his own father, (former) CEC Bishop Philip Zampino. I suggest that those visiting this blog looking for information on the CEC check out his blog as well, and continue to pray for the leaders of the CEC, even if you don’t fully agree with their views.

I wanted to explain a little bit about the history of the Charismatic Episcopal Church for those readers who may be unfamiliar with the church. The CEC did not break away from any Anglican or Episcopalian body. It was formed by charismatic pastors who came to a more ancient and catholic understanding of Christianity. The CEC is (ideally) a convergence of three streams of thought and practice: the sacramental, the evangelical, and the charismatic. Many parishes use the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer in their worship.

I briefly flirted with the idea of joining the Charismatic Episcopal Church, but quite a few things stood in the way of me joining. One major reason I didn’t join was what was happening in the CEC cathedral a friend of mine attended. The bishop suspended the liturgy when the “Spirit moved” and the behavior seemed more charismatic than Catholic. There are other incidents, not to mention that the CEC suffers from many of the same issues as Anglicanism, but I won’t go into all of this here. I have a few friends who are active in the church, and I think the CEC does many good things. Thus, I still take an interest in the Charismatic Episcopal Church. It is not my intention to slander the Charismatic Episcopal church, nor do I want to get a comment war going about their weaknesses.

However, it seems that quite a few dioceses have either pulled out or been kicked out of the CEC. One of these is the archdiocese in which I live, the Great Lakes Archdiocese. Apparently Bishop Fick has pulled our whole region out. Bishop Philip Zampino has done the same thing, a man widely respected in the CEC (His son David Zampino recently became Catholic; I know him through the amazon.com friends and favorites pages, where we both have written many book reviews).

Does anybody know what is exactly going on in the CEC?

[Note: This resulting discussion has been moved to What's Up in the Charismatic Episcopal Church in our forum]

[Note: Roaring Oasis currently hosts A List of Allegations relating to the Current Charismatic Episcopal Church Crisis, compiled mostly by Ken Follis.]