The United Methodist church recently upheld its current position, which is that “homosexual practice is incompatible with Christian teaching.” This was a part of a minority report that was adopted. The “majority report” (apparently not representing the majority of delegates) wanted to substitute the “incompatibility” language with “faithful, thoughtful people who have grappled with this issue deeply disagree with one another; yet all seek a faithful witness.” They also wanted to ask Methodists “to refrain from judgment regarding homosexual persons and practices as the Spirit leads us to a new insight” (emphasis mine). The delegates also voted to retain language preventing Methodist pastors from performing gay “marriages,” and rejected language suggesting “civil unions” were a human right. The UMC also affirmed the dignity of all persons, regardless of sexual orientation. As you can see from the photo above, not everybody was too happy with the current decisions.
So basically, Methodists have again rejected revisionist (and I use this not as a slur but for those who want to “revise” the discipline of the UMC) appeals for changes regarding appropriate Christian sexual morality. Of course, the progressives will not stop trying. They will continue to disobey the rules regarding sexuality, stressing “dialogue” and “living in tension,” and being “prophetic,” until that is, they “win the day,” and they can start literally enforcing the rules when conservatives break them! Maybe I am being cynical, but this is pretty much how it has happened in the Episcopal church, another mainline Protestant church dealing with sexuality.
However, the window to officially change the UMC in a more liberal direction may be closing. As is the case in most churches, the Methodist church is growing rapidly in conservative Africa, and declining in liberal conferences in the U.S. Apparently conservative conferences are growing in the U.S. Thus, the future of the UMC is likely going to be traditional, at least in terms of sexual morality. I grew up UMC, and have quite a few Methodist friends. In the West Ohio Conference, the bishop when I grew up was Judith Craig, who was extremely liberal, and from what I understand, was part of the Reimagining Conference (communion with milk and honey, prayers to Sophia, etc). However, the new bishop of the West Ohio Conference is known to be conservative, and many pastors from Asbury Theological Seminary (a conservative Methodist seminary in Kentucky) are in positions of power. Thus it seems like things are turning around for conservatives even in the U.S.
My dad is a UMC minister. I remember him telling me stories about UMC liberalism. The first ministry commission he went before refused to approve his ordination, because my dad insisted that belief in the bodily resurrection was non-negotiable. Oh, the heresy!! At any rate, it seems like the Methodists have stood firm. John Wesley would be proud.
Most Evangelicals and other Protestants I know of are a bit mystified that Catholics can “have church every day” - if they are even aware that we do…
When I worked downtown sometimes I attended the “lunchtime low” at the Cathedral during the weekdays - well attended by business folk on their lunch hour.
A somewhat curious co-worker of Southern extraction was surprised:
“Y’all have church at lunch?”
“Yup. We have church at lunch.”
“Every day?”
“Yup. Every day.”
In turn most Catholics in America are likely largely unaware of the daily prayers of the Roman Church in praying the Divine Office… We will save that for another post.
More mystifying still to some who think about it, is that when I speak of “my Church” I mean the Catholic Church - throughout the world, in all parishes (though I admit, some I would be more hesitant to claim!) - not just my particular parish. For many non-Catholics this sense of “availability” of multiple locations seems odd on the face of it. “Their church” is often meant to mean “my congregation” - levels of comfort in finding another congregation they could worship with when traveling (for example) seems to vary widely.
But I am curious to ask our readership who are converts: How have opportunities to participate in the liturgical and sacramental life of the Church outside of Sunday (& maybe Wednesday night) services affected your prayer life?
Non-Catholics, have you been involved with congregations that had daily opportunities to gather for prayer? If you don’t belong to a mainline denomination, how do you assess places of worship when away from your congregation?
“Soon I will be engaging in religious debates with my girlfriends pastor and I am looking for advice. He is an Evangelical Lutheran pastor. We are doing this so she would see a Catholic priest with me and talk about converting. So I am just looking for advice on what to talk about with the pastor.”
This is the post of a participant at Catholic Answers Forums. This is my advice:
“Ask if he will send you an email with the itinerary of his choosing so that you can prepare.Be polite, do not be rude or triumphal. If you don’t know an answer say “I will have to research that, let me write that down.” Don’t BS - that will only get you in trouble.
Thank him for his time when you arrive. Thank him again when you leave. Keep it cool.
Polite. Polite. Polite. Are the three rules to follow.”
Gentle readers, what do you think? What is your advice? Our Lutheran (yea, you LutherPunk!) and Methodist-Calvinist readership are certainly invited to weigh in.
Largest Anglican Parish in Canada Secedes over Same-Sex Blessings By John Connolly
VANCOUVER, February 15, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Citing disagreements over homosexuality, the largest Anglican congregation in Canada voted overwhelmingly to break with its diocese and join a conservative Anglican movement based in South America. St. John’s, a parish in the upscale neighborhood of Shaughnessy in Vancouver, voted to leave the Diocese of New Westminster on February 13… The full text of the story is available at: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2008/feb/08021505.html
I wish them well. I hope they are able to find a seperate peace.
It does occur to me that for the time being, they will still be in communion with all the elements of Anglicanism they find problematic, just switching bishops to one who better suits their understanding of orthodoxy. I think that begins to open another discussion: Does authority dependent on the consent of the governed constitute any form of authority at all? Is that a model for episcopal government or de facto congregationalism?
It is understandable that Canadian Anglicans might experience a warmness when looking southerly mid-February. For more orthodox sunshine and warmth year round, it may be time to cast their gaze more Romeward.
To anyone surprised by the story about the UMC congregation celebrating and affirming same sex couples, behold Rev. Drew Phoenix. Formerly he was a she known as Rev. Ann Gordon. As it turns out transgendered clergy, by ruling of the UMC committee brought together to examine the issue, are acceptable.
What was that about same-sex partnership being blessed?
Am I alone in the name change reminding me of The Simpsons episode where Homer opts to be called Max Powers?
As Homer “Max Powers” Simpson once pointed out “Once you go Vatican you never go back again!”
Among the ecclesial communities of Anglicans and Lutherans various levels of inter-communion (i.c.) currently exists.
In the US & Canada, the Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church of Canda and the Evangelcal Lutheran Church of America & Evangelcal Lutheran Church of Canada are all in communion. The Episcopalians/Canadian Anglicans are in turn i.c. with the wider Anglican Communion, a portion of which in turn is i.c. with the Lutheran Churches in Northern Europe, which are, in turn, i.c. with the Evangelcal Lutheran Church of America & Evangelcal Lutheran Church of Canada.
As it stands now, the result of these working agreements is that with the consecration of any new Episcopal or Lutheran bishop here in North America or in Europe among the above noted parites, bishops from each group take part. Ostensibly this is done to “restore apostolic succession” to the episcopate of Lutherans… It also seems to be a move made to answer the objections of some in the AC who have concearns about the validity of Lutheran orders…
I guess in the mean time, with the Porvoo, Called to Common Mission and Waterloo agreements that bind or at least bring together these various communions at various levels, Anglican parties holding to the necessity of Apostolic Succession will roundly ignore the lack (some would propose) thereof in the Lutheran bodies they now work with. Conversely Lutherans with serious reservation about “yoking extra-scriptural concepts of Apostolic Succession” to episcopacy are hoped (I can only guess) to not push the issue to a confrontation.
(Interestingly, many Lutheran bodies - including the Synod set up by Swedes in America - now part of the ELCA - did not use episcopacy for governance, and had a generally more congregational or presbyterian outlook on the nature and theology of ministry, government and ordination.)
To confuse the issue further, Anglican communion intercommunion agreements extend to most Ultrajectine bodies, Moravians and a handful of ecclesial communities that were formed through mergers that included Anglicans (Church of North India, Church of South India). In turn what understanding those bodies have of each other, or of the Lutherans, seems to vary, though from what I can gather, it is unclear that much consideration of how these inter-communion agreements carry over to different bodies that aren’t signatories of inter-communion agreements.
While certain evangelical elements in the Anglican communion have been upset with TEC for the consecration of openly gay, practicing and promoting homosexuals, it has already been the case that they were (on paper) already i.c. with Ultrajectines (Bonn Agreement, 1931) who already bless same sex unions and have no impediement on the ordination of practicing and promoting homosexual men and women.
As it stands right now…
… the Church of England is i.c. with the
… Church of Sweden which is i.c. with the
… ELCA which is i.c. with the
… Episcopal Church which is i.c. with the
… Moravian Church which is i.c. with the
… United Methodist church which is i.c. with the
… African Methodist Episcopal Church which is i.c. with the
… African Methodist Episcopal Church which is i.c. with the
… Disciples of Christ which is i.c. with the
… United Church of Christ which is i.c. with the
… International Council of Community Churches which mostly seem to have open communion, but I don’t know that they would be conisdered i.c. with
… the Church of England.
What does it mean to be “in communion” to begin with?
(To be sung to the tune of “Maria” from West Side Story. With thanks to Raymond Arroyo of EWTN and apologies to Leonard Bernstein …)
Sharia!
Sharia, the Archbishop is all for Sharia!
His really awkward shame will never be the same to me.
Sharia! Don’t publically kiss your girl Maria!
Ask Dhimmi who’ve found how awful a sound it can be!
Sharia, please watch out what music your playing.
If it comes, be quiet when you are a Catholic praying!
Sharia, He’s actually open to Sharia!
Oh +Cantuar… Given that all variations of “Muhammed” combined have become the most popular name for boys in the UK, leave this lobbying to home-grown sharia enthusiasts.
A few days ago I re-published another blogger’s comparison of Bishop Schori & Pope Benedict’s Christmas messages asking readers to compare, contrast and offer thoughts. I wanted to think about how I would formulate what struck me right away.
The difference between them, when comparing and contrasting, was the difference between night and day in a real way. It is a difference in illumination.
These past few nights in my corner of the world the moonlight has been exceptional. Just the other night when the dogs were taking me for a pre-bedtime walk I marveled at how I could have read a book by the light of the moon.
“By the light of the moon” is a funny colloquialism. Truly the moon produces no light, it merely reflects a great light - the sun. While our side of this good earth turns from the sun, the moon reflects the sunlight that is shining on the other side of the world.
I found the difference between the truths and message of hope between the two leaders to be very much like the difference between that noon-day sun in the dessert and even the brightest moonlight that you could read under. One is simply a fuller source.
Looking at B16’s message, it is amazing the layers of Incarnational, Trinitarian and salvation truth/light that are woven seamlessly together. The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How of salvation, the trinity, the incarnation are all there. Why Jesus was - Son of the Father, Word made Flesh, Salvation of the Universe, historic reality, Judge of nations, Oblation of peace. It is all there implicitly and explicitly. His message is that of a reminder of these truths, a reminder to keep our end before us, as we recall Who came and Why and what in turn is expected of us and then WHY it is expected. “In the twilight of our days on earth, when we are about to die, we shall be judged on the basis of our similarity to the child whose birth shall occur in the plain grotto in Bethlehem since it is He who is the God-given standard by which humanity shall live. ” True bright shining sunlight like noonday in the Sahara.
The KJS text is not false. It is not heretical. It is not in error. There is much truth to it, but in stark comparison and contrast, this sort of writing is vague. There is much to it, but the greater Truth is richer still. It is true inasmuch as it reflects great Truth, but it is moonlight.
“The Father does not judge anyone but he has given all judgment to his Son [. . .] because he is the Son of Man. It is today, in the present, that our future destiny is decided. It is through our actual behavior in this life that we decide our eternal fate. In the twilight of our days on earth, when we are about to die, we shall be judged on the basis of our similarity to the child whose birth shall occur in the plain grotto in Bethlehem since it is He who is the God-given standard by which humanity shall live. The Father who is Heaven,who through the birth of His one and only Begotten Son has shown us His merciful love, calls upon us to follow His steps and turn our lives, as He did, into a gift of love.”–Pope Benedict XVI on Monday, December 10
Exhibit 2:
The challenge is to let our seasonal “seeing” transform the way we meet our neighbors through the rest of the year, and through all the coming years. How might we begin to see that child in those around us: strangers and aliens (both Immanuel and Immigrants); wanderers (Homeless, like Mary and Joseph, for whom there was no room); widows and orphans (Social Outcasts); babe born in Bethlehem (Palestinian and Israeli alike; or the boy babies whom both Pharaoh and Herod sought to kill); divine feeder of thousands (Soup Kitchen worker); and savior of the world (Peacemaker, Bringer of Justice for All, Reconciler, Just and Gracious Lawgiver…). If God comes among us as a helpless child, then the divine presence is truly all around us.–From Katherine Jefferts-Schori’s Christmas
Message to TEC
Compare and contrast these two. What are the differences offered between them? I am going to wait a day or so for comments, and weigh in as to what I see as the biggest difference. This could be fun.
AN ALL-FEMALE committee representing the Anglican Church’s Melbourne diocese has recommended that abortion be decriminalised, in what is believed to be the first official approval of abortion by Australian Anglicans.
Archdeacon Alison Taylor said yesterday the church recognised there were circumstances, especially foetal abnormality, when abortion was “the least problematic solution”.
The diocese was one of 40 church, medical and community groups who made confidential submissions to the Victorian Law Reform Commission, which is reviewing state abortion laws. According to the commission, there were also more than 500 written submissions.
“We certainly don’t adopt the pro-choice perspective, that it’s something women can do with their bodies like having their appendix removed,” Archdeacon Taylor said. “We live in a broken world where appallingly difficult decisions have to be made.”
Just a little abortion. You know, when it would be ok. We’ve heard similar before… 77 years after Lambeth, 1930, the next step is taken.
Episcopal Bishop Robert Duncan of Pittsburgh made clear his intention: He is planning to withdraw his diocese out of the Episcopal Church. Where to from there is not clear… But this has invoked the ire of the Mother Bishop of the church, Her Grace Prime Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori.
In a letter to Bp. Duncan, Her Grace writes:
If your course does not change, I shall regrettably be compelled to see that appropriate canonical steps are promptly taken to consider whether you have abandoned the Communion of this Church — by actions and substantive statements, however they may be phrased — and whether you have committed canonical offences that warrant disciplinary action.
It grieves me that any bishop of this Church would seek to lead any of its members out of it. I would remind you of my open offer of an Episcopal Visitor if you wish to receive pastoral care from another bishop. I continue to pray for reconciliation of this situation, and I remain
Had he had his way, Her Grace would not have a job today. Then again, raised Catholic as a child, had she followed this advice herself, she would not be having to deal with this mess.
Maybe Her Grace has a point. Maybe people should not leave The Church because they don’t like this or that. Maybe no good end will in fact come of it.
Funny how viscously destructive issues of marital morality and schism can be… Oh the ironies.
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